Quality of Life Improvements and MSQ Gating for New Players

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Originally Posted by Krotoan

How is "there's nothing to do" invalid though? Think of it this way: Skipping grinds = less time playing the game in total = shorter subscriptions and less player investment (people who feel invested feel like they should keep investing)= less consistent funding for the game = less money to make more game.

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Even if the MSQ was to be made optional, there's so much other content,Beast Tribes, Gold Saucer,player events/RP etc. Hence, I said it's a matter of perception.There's always going to be players complaining that there's nothing to do in any MMORPG.

If tedious grinds have to be implemented in game to slow down player progress,it means existing content is not good enough/needs to be improved to retain subscriptions.

You can buy skip potions... if you want to skip. Dev's don't need to waste development time for people who don't want to actually play the entire game. They're not going to adjust the main story or side story quests, they've already provided a solution.

I don't know why you guys are so against some QoL improvements like condensing the ARR storyline or making it easier to get to the relevant content without forking over even more money...

People don't play the game for the same reasons. A good portion of people play XIV for the story at least in part. But for those that just want to be able to do stuff with their friends, the MSQ is a burden and a hindrance. Can you honestly say there's a lot of value in the ARR quests that would be lost by cutting out some fetch quests and "go here to talk to x and report back" interludes? If players want to skip it all then sure charge them for the convenience - it's their loss and waste of money. But for those that want to get to the good stuff without losing context, trimming the fat is a good thing. I can certainly think of worse things SE has invested development resources into lately...

Honestly, I don't consider the MSQ as being on the same level of content as raids, trials, PvP, dungeons, etc. It adds playtime but not in the sense that it continues to give people "something to do". You do it once and that's it. I personally enjoy the story a lot for what it is but it doesn't add significant value compared to the stuff I play most for, which is the end-game content (such as it is). So I can see where OP is coming from and I'm not sure why people are willing to defend a less than stellar newbie experience in the game. "It gets better I promise, just slog through 30 hours of story and bs quests until you get to where I am if you don't wanna pay more money to skip all that crap you just paid for" is not the world's greatest sales pitch.

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Originally Posted by Stoutale

As a basically new player (played for a short time years ago) unless you are a FF fanatic I can’t imagine watching/reading this storyline. I first logged in saying I was going to do that, then I realized I could sooner read War and Peace and watch every Star Wars movie ever made faster then watch and read this story line with all the dialogue and cut scenes. Not knocking it, I’m sure it’s great, but I believe more then you think completely ignore it and play it for other reasons, not the least of which is they have got bored with other MMOs and it’s different.

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And you are more than welcome to that stance, it's not for everyone and I've had people tell me it's uninspired and trite which I can see from their perspective.I'm not a fanatic though, I just like stories and world building. I'm sure there's a decent amount who don't play for story, but they have their option to get through it and honestly ignoring the actual story and purely experiencing the gameplay will, if nothing else, show you how to play the game and get comfortable with the mechanics. You don't have to sit through any of it except those 2 dungeons at the end of ARR, and that never ever repeats. I will say that the kind of person who isn't in it for the characters around them will find it boring quickly though unless they are playing it for their friends, I don't think it should cater to people who would only stick around for gameplay innovation and "newness" since as we've seen the current formula works but is anything but innovative.

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Originally Posted by Stoutale

As a basically new player (played for a short time years ago) unless you are a FF fanatic I can’t imagine watching/reading this storyline.

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I actually know quite a few players who never played any FF game before and they enjoyed the msq.

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Originally Posted by TwistedTea

MSQ gating content seems like a huge turnoff to most casual players,the main target demographic for FFXIV.

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XIV is a very story driven game. Of course this won't appeal to everyone but it's obvious that it does to a very large majority. SE wouldn't have been able to tell the story like this for years if it wasn't well received.

If a player cannot stand working through a story and skipping cut scenes isn't enough for them, then this isn't the game for them. Simple as that. How the story is told is a prevalent and fundamental part of the game. Asking for this to be changed would alter the game to its core.

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Originally Posted by TwistedTea

A casual player who just wants to hang out with friends in Stormblood areas/do the newest content has to slog through at least 3-4 months of MSQ (ARR to the start of Stormblood),assuming they're playing 2 hours daily.

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Since when does casual mean you play very little? Being casual has a lot more to do with -how- you play than the amount of time you dedicate per day. Most players I know are casual and they play 4+ hours almost every day.

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Originally Posted by TwistedTea

If they want to get into raids at this point, at least another 2 months to get geared up.

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If they only want to play a max of two hours per day, then good luck raiding. Most statics raid more than that on their raid nights and if you're pugging waiting for a group and then killing the boss can easily take longer than that.

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Originally Posted by Krotoan

How is "there's nothing to do" invalid though? Some people HAVE done all the content that interests them. Personally I play almost exclusively for the story and glamours. I don't extreme raid and I don't PVP. When I run out of story and have no current glamour goals I play far far less.

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To be fair, it's an "invalid" complaint simply because it's worded poorly. They mean to say that there's nothing they want to do. Just like when people look into a pantry packed full of food and exclaim that "there's nothing to eat". This is kind of just me arguing semantics since we know what they mean, but it's always been the kind of thing that irks me when I hear it and I always try to self-correct when I catch myself about to say it.

It also saves time in the long run because if you say "There's nothing to do", someone will invariably show up to ask you if you've literally done everything, listing off all of the content the game has to offer. To which you would probably answer "Oh, I just don't like to do some of those things". Nothing you WANT to do =/= Nothing TO do. The dominoes supporting your argument just fell like a house of cards. Checkmate.

Note that I'm not accusing you, Krotoan, of falling into this trap. I'm speaking generally on how I don't think it is a valid complaint when worded like that. You'll have to forgive me for pointlessly arguing semantics. I'm just sitting here bored because I have nothing to d--ooooh I almost walked right into that one.

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Originally Posted by Penthea

Since when does casual mean you play very little? Being casual has a lot more to do with -how- you play than the amount of time you dedicate per day. Most players I know are casual and they play 4+ hours almost every day...If they only want to play a max of two hours per day, then good luck raiding. Most statics raid more than that on their raid nights and if you're pugging waiting for a group and then killing the boss can easily take longer than that.

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And I know of casual players who can only play 2 hours on weekdays and perhaps a little more on weekends/days off. Googling for the definition of a 'causal player' brings up references to both reduced time and skill etc required. Not just types of content attempted.

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Originally Posted by TwistedTea

Even if the MSQ was to be made optional, there's so much other content,Beast Tribes, Gold Saucer,player events/RP etc. Hence, I said it's a matter of perception.There's always going to be players complaining that there's nothing to do in any MMORPG.

If tedious grinds have to be implemented in game to slow down player progress,it means existing content is not good enough/needs to be improved to retain subscriptions.

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Tedious being subjective as well. If you're interested in the story it's anything but, and if you're truly new then every new dungeon and mechanic you're introduced to as well as every locale and monster will be a refreshing change. Beast tribes, gold saucer and almost every other "side" content are heavily gated grinds as well. That's how you make an online MMORPG have longevity. I can't think of one successful MMORPG that doesn't have some sort of time gating in it at all.
If you allow people, they will consume all updates like locusts and ask for more. Someone was likely level capped within days of the games release and possibly story finished even when dungeons were actually difficult at max ilvl. However giving most of the playerbase a reason to login everyday but also slowing them a little so they CAN'T easily blow through all of it in one go. It's not a positive for player freedom, but it's an understandable necessity to keep subscriptions going. Otherwise you've got to try and produce content at the rate people consume it and that is impossible.

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Originally Posted by ElHeggunte

To be fair, it's an "invalid" complaint simply because it's worded poorly. They mean to say that there's nothing they want to do. Just like when people look into a pantry packed full of food and exclaim that "there's nothing to eat". This is kind of just me arguing semantics since we know what they mean, but it's always been the kind of thing that irks me when I hear it and I always try to self-correct when I catch myself about to say it.

It also saves time in the long run because if you say "There's nothing to do", someone will invariably show up to ask you if you've literally done everything, listing off all of the content the game has to offer. To which you would probably answer "Oh, I just don't like to do some of those things those things". Nothing TO do =/= Nothing you WANT to do. Checkmate.

Note that I'm not accusing you, Krotoan, of falling into this trap. I'm speaking generally on how I don't think it is a valid complaint when worded like that. You'll have to forgive me for pointlessly arguing semantics. I'm just sitting here bored because I have nothing to d--ooooh I almost walked right into that one.

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I cannot blame people for timekilling on forums.. I hate to brag but I'm getting paid to argue right now =]
I get why people usually say "there's nothing to do" and I'll usually respond with suggestions just as you have "have you done....?" but if you've come to a game to experience story and you've experienced all the story, you're not wrong in saying you've exhausted the content you're interested in. It's not invalid as a statement, just not complete.

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Originally Posted by Krotoan

...Beast tribes, gold saucer and almost every other "side" content are heavily gated grinds as well...Otherwise you've got to try and produce content at the rate people consume it and that is impossible.

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Yes, but these types of 'side' content do not bar you from areas, important NPC vendors etc. While I can see,why SE and other companies ,slow player progress, I think any reasonable player knows, there only so much content which can be produced and once they have cleared all the content they want to do, it's their problem what to do next. I guess what rankles is 'artificial' progression blocks to 'endgame' content.

Addressing, "This is a story-based game" arguement:

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...there is another game that already did this with much greater success. And believe it or not - it is also within the FF universe, online, and over 15 years old... It's called FFXI where you can choose to NOT do main story quest if you don't want to, and can level up nicely. You can also do any of the patches main story independently from the base story. FFXI gives so much OPTIONS and FREEDOM - it is mind boggling that FF14, while did better jobs on some things - failed on every single counts when it comes to "let people do what they want and please stop locking everything behind MSQ". FFXI main story is also less "dumb fetch quests for no reasons" - mind you, there are some, but compared to FF14....

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