Please add more Water to WHM’s identity

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Originally Posted by NewAgeDoom

Just my 2 gil here, but isn't WHMs identity supposed to be either Holy, or nature in general?

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Yup a mixture of those. And Water fits that very well and is otherwise missing. Thematically earth allows for life (plants) to grow but only should water nourish and wind spread the seeds. Holy (astral/white magic) spells deal with light, life and protection, the same concept as the great bole (tree) and harmonizes with that of the conjurer’s 3 elements.

Fluid Aura is the one, no-doubt-about-it water spell for WHM and is extremely rarely used. I personally only use it in Eureka or if there is a stray caster on a group pull to push it where it belongs. The second reason is why its use (with no element attached and a new name/animation) would make for a better Role Ability (all healers should be able to knock a stray back to the group).

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Originally Posted by Shouko

They could but they won't, clearly they don't have any desire other than what the mobs are able to do and even then it's just counted as unspecified itself since there's no actual resistances, def and dmg only come into play via the wheel in Eureka sadly.



No holy in the game, it's just elemental based, aka Earth, Air (healing, wind spells) Water, the elements are part of nature.

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...Isn't there a spell LITERALLY called Holy though?

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Originally Posted by NewAgeDoom

...Isn't there a spell LITERALLY called Holy though?

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Yeah in this case it's just unspecified damage, aka non "holy" magic, think of most of the spells in the game as glamored unspecified damage into the element or type. It has no impact on doing double damage or whatever to voidal mobs or undead, just like lightning won't do more to water or water to fire.

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Originally Posted by Shouko

Yeah in this case it's just unspecified damage, aka non "holy" magic, think of most of the spells in the game as glamored unspecified damage into the element or type. It has no impact on doing double damage or whatever to voidal mobs or undead, just like lightning won't do more to water or water to fire.

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Holy is an element, lorewise. It’s known as Astral (opposed to Umbral). “Holy spells/magic,” “light magic,” “white magic” are all synonymous terms to describe spells and abilities like Holy, Benediction, Tetragrammaton, Assize, Divine Benison etc.

The casting animation is almost always unaspected, as seen in Ruin, Gravity and seen in WHM as Holy. However, the (WHM) spells from a lore point are decidedly astral aligned.

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Originally Posted by MartaDemireux

Holy is an element, lorewise. It’s known as Astral (opposed to Umbral). “Holy spells/magic,” “light magic,” “white magic” are all synonymous terms to describe spells and abilities like Holy, Benediction, Tetragrammaton, Assize, Divine Benison etc.

The casting animation is almost always unaspected, as seen in Ruin, Gravity and seen in WHM as Holy. However, the spells from a lore point are decidedly astral aligned.

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Good for lore, not talking about lore, talking purely from mechanics.

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Originally Posted by Shouko

Good for lore, not talking about lore, talking purely from mechanics.

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You replied to a lore-related comment with a comment about mechanics. Everyone knows every spell deals damage unrelated to its assigned element and is purely based on Magic Attack versus Magic Defense. You can see why I was confused by you saying the element doesn’t exist when it does.

in 1.0 cnj was more black magie of the 2 and thm was the better healer

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Originally Posted by Ordoric

in 1.0 cnj was more black magie of the 2 and thm was the better healer

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To be fair THM was also the best tank/soloist lol. Much and more has changed since those days!

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Originally Posted by MartaDemireux

Holy is an element, lorewise. It’s known as Astral (opposed to Umbral).

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I was under the impression that umbra/astra was written out as elements, and the words themselves merely define the other elemental aether-i.e. the difference between a heat wave and a fireball.

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Originally Posted by MistakeNot

The class abilities do that now, but original lore - and the way it was back in 1.0 - was that Conjury used all the six elements (Air, Earth, Water, Lightning, Fire, Ice) while Thaumaturgy used Astral and Umbral energies

This has partly been ret-conned since then - making the surrounding lore less coherent than it used to be.


Note also that White Magic is not really "advanced conjury" - it is a separate magical school that in many ways work differently than conjury.
Same with Black Magic and thaumaturgy.

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This. Black Magic draws from elemental inference, if I recall the term correctly -- sort of the shades or draw of magic as a whole on the part of the raw elements while White Mage is about those energies invested in actual souls -- which is a bit ironic, given that Conjury is originally all about the relationship with and between the elements, while Thaumaturgy was originally about soul-bound or -binding magics or literally "miracle-making".