Yeah, don't hesitate to use asylum as an additionnal HoT. It can be used after party wide damage fi you want, but's less effective that way. It shines a bit more in some specific raid situations.
Cure 2 is strong when the tank is loosing HP really fast, but try using some cure 1 if you can. There's a chance to get a free cure 2 proc by using cure 1, wich make your MP easier to manage.
I wouldn't go as far as to call it an error, but not over using it is generally a good idea. I can make the tank hold longer, especially if the pull tend to get a bit too long.
Should healing be this difficult while leveling?
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01-19-2018, 09:59 PMVyriah
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01-19-2018, 10:59 PMTridusI think it was intended as an AoE recovery tool, but DPS won't stay in it reliably and Medica II/Assize/Cure III already do that. So yes, Asylum works best if you drop it on the tank and treat it like an extra Regen. The tank is likely to stay in it, at least.Quote:
Originally Posted by Spiriel_Basanda
Bardam's Mettle trash hits like trucks that are filled with smaller trucks. That is where you can tell real fast is a tank is in Shire gear still or if they've gotten drops from Bardam's already, because the defense stat differences are huge. It's IMO one of the hardest dungeons to heal in the entire game, and far harder than any expert. Ideally you don't want to Cure II spam in there, but you might have to. Do remember that you can Swiftcast Holy to stun the entire trash pack, Assize, Tetra, and Benediction should all be used to help out, and at that level you can get Divine Benison. If you're spamming Cure, you have the lilies to use it.Quote:
Also, uh, Cure II's a mistake? For me it seems like the tank's HP ping-pongs every pull outside of the first one. Maybe it's just Bardam's Mettle doing it's thing, maybe not, but sometimes it just doesn't seem like Cure spam + regen would be enough.
If MP is an issue, try to mix Cure and Cure II to get some Freecure procs. They help. That kinda ceases to be much of an issue at 70. -
01-20-2018, 12:06 AMSpiriel_Basanda
Usually I just open up pulls with Regen > Aero III > Thin Air > Holy x3, assuming the tank doesn't drop like a rock while I'm busy casting Aero III. I figured that's how you were supposed to do it because I see WHMs do it all the time in Expert.
After the stuns wear off I tend to get to where I'm alternating Cure II and Aero to try to keep my dots rolling. Thinking about it I had far less of an issue in Shisui of the Violet Tides(Except for that one Warrior who pulled the first two packs then swapped to his dps stance, that one I didn't manage to keep alive because I didn't notice he did that, so I was still trying to apply Aeros and he lost like half of his HP in an instant, and I couldn't get him back up, but I think that wasn't my fault so much), so I suppose once I get to Doma Castle Cure + Regen might be enough to continue dotting things.
One small note I've learned, Cure III's splash healing range doesn't seem to be very large. I remember on the last boss of Bardam's, I stood inside of the bird when everyone was still in the melee hitbox, cast Cure III on myself, and it hit no one. That suggests to me Cure III's not really useful outside of more organized raiding, unless I'm missing something. -
01-20-2018, 05:59 AMMoroMurasakiCure III is my go-to for healing damage from stack markers. It seems to have about the range of the yellow circle for a stack marker too. In pugged casual content I rarely use it for anything else though, better to Medica/II and know I'm getting everyone.Quote:
Originally Posted by Spiriel_Basanda
My 'opener' for a large pull involves an Aero III if I think it will hit more than two enemies at the start of the pull, Aero cast on enemies during the run, Swiftcast+Holy as enemies are grouped, Regen the tank and drop Asylum, an Aero III to get the whole group dotted then Cleric Stance+Presence of Mind, Holy, Thin Air+Assize into a Holy spam. Tetra will be used on the tank as my go-to initial heal.
The first Aero III can be omitted if it isn't a very long run, I mostly use that for megapulls like the first boss to second boss pull in Ala Mhigo where those dots will have some time to tick. -
01-20-2018, 06:04 PMKDSilverCure II is not a mistake.My point was : ONLY spamming Cure II and ignoring the rest of your tool is a mistake ^^Quote:
Originally Posted by Spiriel_Basanda
Besides, is you feel like the damages are strong, of course, you'll prefer using Cure II over Cure. But what makes Cure a solid argument (at least at the very beginning of the pull) is that it costs less and can proc Cure II at free cost. Since the OP seemed to have mp issus, that's why I said that.
You don't need aoe situation to use Asyluym. Yes, it is aoe, but it can also be used as single target HoT. And the best example for that is dungeon where only the tank takes damages. Asylum is a free oGCD so it's better to use it.
Cure III range is the same as Asylyum if you want to have an idea.Quote:
Originally Posted by Spiriel_Basanda
Cure III is useful when you have to aoe, and everyone is at the range of your spell. It is indeed used more on Primals fight and raid.
One Cure III is less expensive than two Medica, and is faster to cast. That's what make it really good. -
01-20-2018, 06:36 PMVanilleFangGenerally I do a pull like this (once the pull has settled some what): Largesse+Regen > Asylum > Cleric Stance+Holy > Swiftcast+Aero III > Assize > Presence of Mind+Thin Air > Holy spam until tank drops to about 50% > Tetra > Holy spam until tank drops to about 20-30% > Benediction > Cure II/Holy/Stone IV as needed.Quote:
Originally Posted by Spiriel_Basanda
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01-21-2018, 03:39 AMLyrica_AshtineI'd like to pitch in here:Quote:
Originally Posted by KDSilver
One Cure III is 550 potency for 2280 MP or 0.24 potency for each MP spend
One Medica II is 700 potency for 2040 MP or 0.34 potency for each MP spend
If it's a single hit AoE, one Medica II is better and just let the healing over time do it's work. If you need to top them off before you enjoy the full benefits from Medica II, Cure III would be better. If we go into detail, we can include Plenary Indulgence. If the party can survive with 200 potency, two or three ticks, and Plenary indulgence, just throw another Medica after the second AoE that came 6-9 seconds after the first. Or if you have the time before the next AoE: do a Medica after Medica II and use Plenary Indulgence to patch it up a bit and let the healing over time do it's thing.
Cure III is primarily useful for it's speed. But that does come at a significantly greater MP cost. Content where there is back-to-back AoE where players have to stack are rare. I can name two occasions from the top of my head: Final coil of Bahamut Turn 4 (or T13) for Akh Morn and Final steps of Faith (Nidhogg). Even though T13 is an odd one of the two, using Cure III to heal two players isn't necessarily a bad thing. Two Cure IIs costs 2400 MP and one Cure III costs 2280 MP and you save one GCD. Yes, there's 150 potency difference between Cure II and Cure III. But just patch it up with Plenary Indulgence if you have no reason to save it. Or simply the natural MP recovery do it's thing. Which is 2% every 3 seconds of their maximum HP. Although I guess there's no plenary indulgence at level 60. -
01-21-2018, 04:04 AMSpiriel_BasandaQuote:
Originally Posted by KDSilver
Ooooooh okay. Admittedly I kinda skimmed over the OP when I was mostly looking for helpful tips for healing, saw the "The first mistake to don't make is to spam Cure II." line and went "Aw hell have I been doing this wrong the whole time?" and got a little worried. So my bad? I ran Doma a lot today and have been trying to use Cure instead of only Cure II's, and it's working. MP wasn't really an issue for me before, but it's gotten better still now. The Asylum suggestion was great to, when Regen/Medica II/Asylum is rolling on the tank I basically just get to cast Stone the whole time, though I don't Medica II just for the tank. Thanks for that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by KDSilver
Now THIS is good info! I've had no idea how I was supposed to use Cure III cause I couldn't really get it to do what I wanted it to do, so a range approximation, why Cure III is good to use if you can, and a practical use suggestion is really helpful.Quote:
Originally Posted by MoroMurasaki
This looks like a good idea. It didn't occur to me to try to fire off an Aero III on the pull. I typically run along it and Aero things, but if I had, I would have thought that getting off an Aero III at roughly the same time the tank makes the pull would cause aggro problems. That not being the case, this is a great idea.Quote:
Originally Posted by MoroMurasaki
Largesse boosts regens? I don't know why but this never occurs to me until someone points it out. I mained SCH for about a year starting around 2.4 or 2.5 and didn't realize Rouse boosted Whispering Dawn until a few months after I changed to MCH main when I was browsing a SCH tips and tricks thread, and I just didn't think Largesse would work on Regen in the same way. Oh well, the more you know I suppose. I try to not be a bad healer, I swear, lol. Looking at this opener, it looks really good and I'll give it a try. Then I'm sad, because not only did I not realize the Largesse thing, I see you listing Presence of Mind and think "What is this Presence of Mind thing?" Turns out it wasn't on my bars at all. Presence of Mind looks like it'll be really helpful. I can think of a few times it would've been nice, like that one time I was in Doma and the tank pulled the 2 packs of 6 mobs immediately after the second boss. It helped the MCH knew how to use Palisade.Quote:
Originally Posted by VanilleFang
Thanks everyone for all the little tips and tricks, I don't really have any more specific questions or things I need advice for. The job forums are really helpful, when I ask questions about things in the healer, tank, and DD sections I tend to get really detailed answers. In this particular case, I got good MP saving advice, advice on how to use two abilities I never use, reminded that one really helpful ability existed, and a tip on a different use for two others. At minimum. You guys are great! Thanks again! -
01-21-2018, 04:56 AMVanilleFang
PoM is a really great CD. It can be used for both DPS and healing, though once you get more experience you'll probably never use it for healing.
Largesse does buff Regen, but it doesn't buff Asylum. I just use it as an extra little oomph, and it helps if the tank stood in bad and they need an emergency Cure II early in the pull.
I wanted to point out a few things I forgot to mention. As the tank is pulling the mobs I try to Aero II as many as I can, and I usually cast Eye for an Eye and/or Divine Benison before they start pulling if they are avaliable. Also, Cleric Stance is not required. I just use it because, but it barely makes a difference so if you don't want to use it you aren't losing much of anything.
You're welcome! The forums in general are really helpful and understanding when people ask questions or need advice. Especially when they show such an interest in wanting to be better. :) -
01-22-2018, 12:34 PMGeminaYou pretty much nailed it. Asylum benefits mostly the tank. Melee DPS get the HoT as well since they will likely be standing in the Asylum field when executing their combos. In a situation that the OP describes, where the tank is taking a pounding, you should be using Asylum. It is one of three HoTs that can be stacked, and all of them can be boosted with Largesse for ridiculous ticks per second. It's an OGCD and costs no MP, so there really is no reason to not use it unless wanting your lily allocation to go towards another ability, which is a situational thing.Quote:
Originally Posted by Spiriel_Basanda
Cure 2 is definitely not a mistake. There are many situational uses for it, but spamming is not one of them. If you have to, to keep a tank alive during a pull, he has taken on more than the group can chew, and/or is not mitigating damage to the best of his ability. LV50+ WHMs have all the tools they need to heal through a big pull. What bars this after this point are players that are under-geared, or just high enough for the instance. This is a common occurrence in leveling dungeons even in the previous expansions since there are always new players, and veteran players leveling alt jobs and characters. There is a lot that factors into how quickly a tank's HP is depleted. Rarely is it the size of the pull, or the level of gear by themselves. It is the level of gear and stats in relation to the size of the pull. The range from my experience has gone from tanks taking a lot of damage just pulling one group of mobs, to tanks not needing any cures whatsoever for a wall-to-wall pull.
In short, don't be surprised if you have to use cure 2 here and there in a leveling dungeon.