why not let player rise to the challange

that give you time learn the combo have them like second nature

what frustate me is possible jobs like beast master with ability to tame pets is to complex job. that not let players have ability to control and customized they pet and they character how they want. i think they should both complex and simple jobs. if summoner is to be complex let it be that way give players a chance have fun with summoner complexity.

their should room for both simple jobs and complex jobs too. some casual players might like complex jobs who knows. i knew a casual player who love play on wow hunter with ability tame pets myself

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Originally Posted by Savagelf

their should room for both simple jobs and complex jobs too.

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While I don't disagree, the more complexity and options a job has, the harder it is to balance, the more prone it is to nerfs. Look at NIN, when players found a rotation the devs didn't think of

I've said it before, in many games. There are two types of players:

1. Those that get it.
2. Those that don't.

The majority from what I've seen in groups lately.. get it somewhat. Using Red Mages as an example. Most seem to grasp the idea of leading with Jolt to fire up Dualcast. Out of a dozen Redmages I've seen over the last 2 weeks I've only encountered one who didn't. They used Jolt twice or occasionally hardcasted verAero/Thunder without Dualcast.

Here's what SquareEnix ought to do:

Remove 4man dungeons and 8man trials from the MSQ. Or allow a version of it to be played that is entirely solo. Allow the 4 man dungeons and the non-expert trials for the intermediate (average) players, and then your hardest content for the more hardened players.

You can't teach the ones who 'don't get it' how to play 'properly'. They're simply not going to grasp it, or lack the manual dexterity to pull it off. Simplifying the classes won't work. Many of them don't even make the connection between a 123 combo. And you know what? They don't even want to learn, they just want to kick back, read the story and see the ending. Let them have it, but segregate them from the rest so the friction between players is lessened.

ESO does this. The MSQ of that game is entirely solo. You never have to group with a player if you don't want to. You can even get some of the best gear in the game (depending on build) through solo play. Then they have 4 man normal dungeons for those who want to group. Those who want a little more challenge have access to Veteran versions. You basically do the content you can do and are no way pressured to do content beyond your ability. FFXIV could benefit from this example.

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Originally Posted by Chiramu

The thought about playing other games during content patches is a bit odd, majority of MMORPGs make content that make you stay in that one game to keep up to date. Even non-MMOs like MOBAs and Overwatch, produce their games with the intent you will be playing their game 100% of your playtime.

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It's actually a very realistic portrayal of "game hobbyists". the modern gamer DOES play more than 1 game at once and Yoshi knows that. It's only the tail ends of the bell curve (super casual and super hardcore) that tend to only play 1 game for months at a time, due to preference or life situation. I would get so bored with FFxiv if it was the only thing I played, so I jump between it, my Switch, my ps4, and other PC games.

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Originally Posted by Chiramu

The thought about playing other games during content patches is a bit odd, majority of MMORPGs make content that make you stay in that one game to keep up to date. Even non-MMOs like MOBAs and Overwatch, produce their games with the intent you will be playing their game 100% of your playtime.

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I actually prefer this approach. It allows me to catch up on my game backlog. But I must differ on Overwatch. People generally only massively play during the start of competitive (and if youre high enough just a few times a day) or during seasonal events. Other than that, there's little incentive after a while to play 100%. Thats why I like the way FFXIV is because I can play Overwatch, Assassins Creed, and other games in between patches (aside from doing the FFXIV dailies). It's not so much as being a casual as it is, well sometimes theres just not enough time to play everything, and I'm glad they understand that. This way I don't have to choose one over the other.

What I don't understand is why people want to be mono-gamers. You can do more in life than just play FF14

I like ffxiv as it is i just want more complex to some jobs mainly the pet jobs

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Originally Posted by Ayer2015

What I don't understand is why people want to be mono-gamers. You can do more in life than just play FF14

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What does that have to do with anything? Are you suggesting someone who knows a rotation beyond 123 somehow has no life?

Let me break it down for you, since you've bought into the casual vs hardcore bigotry. Gaming for many is a hobby, and like any hobby many are better or more serious than others. Cycling for example, sometimes people ride for the exercise, sometimes they do it for the thrill of it and buy the expensive $1000-10,000 bikes and gear. No one would suggest that cycling is their life unless they doing it professionally (and some games allow for this too). One of my hobbies is collecting fire arms, I have over 20 of them, about $15,000 worth. I also like going to the range to fire them (not all at once of course). They're not my life, I don't have one hidden away in each nook and cranny. Video games are also my hobby, specifically MMOs. I like the strategy that comes with having a group or several groups together with different roles and strengths and tackling the encounters. That doesn't make it my life.

Let me explain where casual and hardcore comes from. This will explain why it is a bigotry that if mods were savvy of, would action people for bringing it up.

It started about 15 years ago. It happened in a few games around that same time. But the one that I saw it begin in the most was in Everquest. Prior to the Planes of Power expansion there was a bit of an equilibrium if you could call it that. Between those who grouped and those who raided (in those days soloing was hard for most). The amount of gear needed to do most content was from groupable content. If you were in Luclin in a smattering of classic, kunark, and velious stuff, it didn't matter. It was usually good enough to most of the group areas.

PoP released and that's when the requirements changed. Just to do the leveling stuff you needed some better gear than the smattering of gear players had acquired. The gear progression required by raiding content was now being applied to the group content. You needed a certain amount of HP/AC on a tank just to survive one mob, and so forth. Now players were being judged on the effort they spent on their characters. I'm not saying this wasn't the case before PoP. But this time it was required, just to do the content.

Some resented it. They didn't care to be measured in such a way. Some of you might be able to empathize as this is when parsers started to become a thing, and players were being compared to one another. Gear was a little more important than skill in some cases simply because of the simplicity of the 'rotations'. I say that in quotes because many classes were just one or two buttons to be pressed on cooldown. Can't really mess that up.

Anyway, those that were being rejected from the new content they just purchased were as expected a little miffed about it. That's when the terms casual and hardcore came about. In their words, to play casually meant they had a job, a life, and priorities outside the game that kept them from attaining the ability to do the stuff they were being barred from. Those that did have the ability were 'hardcore' and were capable of doing the content because they spent their life playing the game 8+ hours a day.

Hardcore was used a slur (and still is), out of jealousy. In retribution, those players being called no life's didn't really take to it well either and hence the term filthy casual came about.

The irony is, for anyone of us who have played MMO's for a minute know that raiding is typically the least playing playstyle out there. Most raid groups in various games spend 2-4 hours raiding, twice a week. That's 4-8 hours a week. Where as a 'casual' plays every day for a time that matches and in many cases doubles or triples that of the prior. this is due to lengthy respawn timers (in the case of open world, like EQ) or weekly dungeon/loot lockouts (WoW, FFXIV, ect).

The point is. The casual vs hardcore dynamic is based on misconceptions, bigotry, and just plain jealousy and envy that ought not be there. I think many would seek to refrain from such terms if they experienced the origins. This little history lesson will do little to change people's minds. But at least it will make them think on the subject. Why are you calling someone who's in a better spot in the game than you, hardcore? Is it really because that's all they do with their life? Well.. many will find, if they actually do a little soul searching and thinking objectively, will find that isn't the case.

Just like any other hobby, some take it more seriously, but that doesn't mean they devote their life to it.

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Originally Posted by Kaethra

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I feel like you've taken this far too seriously. casual vs hardcore doesnt mean plays one game vs plays many or even how much or what you play.... Its not bigotry but simply different titles for how you enjoy gaming personally. Yes some use it for personal attacks but whom you quoted did not.Maybe it wasn't worded perfectly but I understood his point. Then you went and took it the "bigot history" route yourself..... I've noticed lately in many gaming circles this is less and less an issue. Yet here you are bringing it out of the dusty bin where it resides...

I'm a filthy casual sometimes, sometimes I am a midcore player, sometimes I hardcore as they come. Theyre just words describing how serious I take a game.

Some people don't understand mono-gamers because there is just so much out there for gaming, esp lately. It's been a good few years for games. But I know mono-gamers and they are perfectly happy being that way whether they play casually/mid/hardcore. And thats ok.

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I've said it before, in many games. There are two types of players:

1. Those that get it.
2. Those that don't.

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This also is not true. It's not black and white. I know plenty of people that fall in between the two and then some. Some make their own point. lol.

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ESO does this.

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Please no.

I'm not going to keep bringing up points to a brick wall, which is what I see from the current postings. Maybe you've been insulted this way in the past. I don't know. But the first lesson I learned way back when I first picked up a 360 with Halo 3 and a mic, was don't let randoms on the internet affect you personally.

TO OP: In FFXIV its great that players can rise to the challenge if they want to, and they don't have to if they don't want too. You make the decision to play every time you start up the game. You make the decision what to play every time you bring up your Duty Finder. The most important thing is that you have fun doing what you're doing. :)

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Originally Posted by blindfoldedkaos

They set the SB jobs at 50 so people could easily grind the levels for the new content, unlike all the backlash they got in HW for their jobs starting at 30.

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The idea behind those job levels was that they would take the same amount of time leveling. Like 1-50 would take just as long as 30-60 and the same for 50-70. Of course squadron missions sort of made that point moot, but that was the intention at the time.