The Reprisal adjustment I'd welcome, I think it's a good solution. I get nervous with raid-mitigation concerns because one must consider that SE's response may be to super-glue that raid mitigation in via some erroneous resource cost, I hope to avoid that.
... like if DRK were given raid Mitigation is in any way similar to another cumulating, binary Dark Arts added effect then we're still short-changed, and that just compounds into the argument of being a B-tier performer.
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10-22-2017, 05:11 AMXenosan
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10-22-2017, 05:21 AMDerio
So are we just going to ignore Dark Passenger?
Something needs to be done about it.
Also Shadow Wall. Seriously needs a cooldown reduction to match PLD
Then Dark Mind. In HW it was useful because the other tanks couldnt parry magical attacks. Now that all tanks can parry magical attacks this skill is almost useless as and exclusive skill and needs rework.
DRK needs some kind of group mitigation tool like the other tanks to keep it balanced. -
10-22-2017, 05:47 AMNellMoshroca
All these changes look good! Now if only SE would listen....
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10-22-2017, 07:18 AMakisyaLet's not make all 3 tanks have the exact same skills and the exact same utility, and instead maybe try to give DRK an actual identity.Quote:
Originally Posted by Derio
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10-22-2017, 08:38 AMSplittingSkiesI agree, I understand people are just making suggestions but it wouldn't bring much variety from the tank jobs if all three tanks brought the same thing, as you said. Which brings me in favor of your idea about Reprisal, I would welcome Reprisal being returned as a DRK exclusive skill and was a bit disappointed pre-SB that it was one of three skills donated to the Role Action pool, two of which proc'ed off one skill and now it has left us with almost no niche. The damage reduction on Reprisal would have to be adjusted to make it worthwhile, 15% seems fair and it would make DRK more attractive to groups: Do we take the two tanks that can give party shields? Or take one of the two with the other solely responsible for reducing incoming raid damage or help with MT mitigation before it happens?Quote:
Originally Posted by akisya
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10-22-2017, 09:13 AMSyrellaris
Seriously, why does every player want to make each tank equal and a carbon copy of eachother?
You have 3 different type of tanks! Make them different.
1) paladin.
King of protection in my book. Should be the Tank with the lowest damage, the highest survivability and lowest HP. This is the class that protect it's friends and itself, is excellent at solo mob/boss tanking, bad at multi mobs.
2) Warrior.
Well this is the barbarian, the berserker the big damage dealer, low defense. High HP, Highest damage, no party wide protection and medium self protection. Enrage abilities? Avarage bosses, avarage at multimobs?
3) Dark Knight
This is your AoE tank, your drainer/debuffer. It should have Avarage HP, Avarage Damage, High self sustain trough leeches of mana and hp. No party wide protection, avarage Self protection. Able to place debuffs on the mob/boss. Excells at Multiple mob tanking, avarage on bosses. -
10-22-2017, 11:12 AMHruodigThis would never work. Dps is king, so no one would want to take a pld to anything past savage progression. They need to be balanced dps wise and, by default, need the defensive cds to actually do the content. They also need to be able to do all types of content, from trials to raids, to dungeons. *How* they do these things is where they can have their own little identity.Quote:
Originally Posted by Syrellaris
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10-22-2017, 11:41 AMArgyle_Darkheart
PLD is "defensive," and WAR is "offensive." This leaves DRK with "???"
This is the crux of the issue, to my mind. DRK has no mechanical identity because WAR already embodies it. DRKs were sort of the in-between guy in HW, which never really made much sense to me, but now they just suck (relatively speaking). -
10-22-2017, 11:54 AMCrater
Part of the problem with that is that "the offensive tank" is way too broad of an advantage to give to any one tank.
Nobody really comments on it, but "the tank with the highest burst damage" and "the tank with the highest DPS at the end of a fight" should absolutely not, ever, under any circumstance be given to the same class, because those are two completely separate advantages to have.
Conceptually, balancing tank DPS is pretty easy:
- One class does extremely high burst damage and has the lowest overall DPS
- One class has the highest overall DPS but does constant damage with no ability to burst outside of party buffs
- One class is able to do moderate burst, and has an overall DPS in between the other two.
That's meaningful differentiation in class identity with respect to DPS, without painting in an overly broad brush and just saying "Okay, this class is the best at damage, everybody else is fighting over their table scraps". -
10-22-2017, 12:05 PMArgyle_Darkheart
True enough, which is why I put "offensive" in scare quotes, but tanks aren't DPS, so I don't know that SE cares to fine tune the balance along those vectors. Maybe they do, but it wouldn't be easy.