Snailfish Oil Rotation Discussion (regarding the Maker's Mark Rotation)

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Originally Posted by Kenji1134

For the final progress step, how much is CS3 doing for you guys at the craftsmanship requirement?

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At 1441 craftsmanship and 1261 control (using HQ tempura),
CS III = 346
CS III w ingen2 = 447
CS II = 277
CS II w ingen2 = 358
At IQ11, GS, (No Ingen2), Innov, Blessing = 6087
At IQ11, GS, Ingen2, (No Innov), Blessing = 9516
At IQ11, GS, Ingen2, Innov, Blessing = 11565

As we can see, Ingen2 is NECESSARY, and it's stronger than Innov. This is very different from ARR or HW crafting which "Good" > Innov+Ingen2. Here, Ingen2>Good. GS+Innov+Blessing on Good will get only 6087 x 1.5 = 9130 quality. Thus, GS+Blessing cannot be considered even when the Blessing is on Good. GS+Ingen2 is ESSENTIAL. Only after that, if you get a Good, you can skip Innov.

Because of this, the sequence of actions in the final Blessing phase must also be altered comparing to ARR and HW crafting. The ideal sequence used to be:
SH, GS, Innov, Ingen2, Blessing
...with Innov and/or Ingen2 being dispensable if a Good appears after GS.

Now it is changed to:
SH, GS, Ingen2, Innov, Blessing
...with GS and Ingen2 being just as important as each other, and only Innov is dispensable if a Good appears after Ingen2.

Damn, Ing2 is a beast now. Thanks for all that data, its very useful.

So closer to the 1320 craftsmanship requirement, CS3 without Ing2 would be about 300 or so, equal to 7 Maker's stacks.

Since we need a progress move to finish, might as well be CS3, how many Maker's stacks can we burn.

6377*(2/3)^3 = 1890 progress left after PbPx3.
(1890 - ~300)/40 = ~40 FS needed to get close enough to finish with a CS3.
Since we start with 64 stacks, that is 24 we can burn, of which 4 is SH-PbPx3, so 20 left for ToTs, CZ, Manip2, etc... wow, 20 is a good buffer.

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Originally Posted by Caimie_Tsukino

Does anyone know for sure whether the "Miracle + Brow" approach is better than the "more touches at IQ11 and then Blessing" approach?
Maybe I will look into this myself later... could be interesting...

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So I did look into it myself, and I answered my own question. I believe the "Miracle + Brow" approach IS STRONGER, in general.

My control was at 1251.

At IQ11, I did the following:

Finisher Phase Variant A:
SH II, GS, Ingen2, Innov, Miracle (IQ down to 6), GS, Brow.

Finisher Phase Variant B:
SH, GS, Ingen2, Innov, Blessing.

In Variant A, the Miracle gave 9540. The Brow gave 5021. Total = 14561.
In Variant B, the Blessing gave 11448.
The quality difference between the two variants = 3113.

Variant A needed a total of 167 CP.
Variant B needed a total of 128 CP.
The CP difference between the two variants = 39 CP.

At IQ11, my Prudent Touch or Hasty Touch under Ingen1 gives 1487. Thus, you can imagine if I am using Variant B (with Blessing), I must do two at least 2 more Touches under Ingen1 at IQ11 to be just on par with Variant A. And I have an extra 39 CP to do that. Prudent Touch cost 21 CP. Thus, even two of them will cost 42 CP. Chances is that 39 CP is not going to be enough for 2x Prudent (especially we need these touches to be under SH II and Ingen1). It is more likely that we'll just end up with 2 extra Hasty Touches instead. Because Hasty Touches are not 100% secure, it seems difficult for us to do enough with that extra 39 CP to obtain 3113 more quality in Variant B.

Therefore, I believe Variant A is stronger, in general.

In conclusion, we should save up 167 CP to do the "Miracle+Brow" ending instead of saving 128 CP for the "Blessing" ending.

However, if one runs into a situation where there're plenty of durab left, but just not enough CP, one could forfeit the Miracle+Brow approach to immediately gain access to 39 more CP. By activating SH II at least, one can at least push 5 more steps of Hasties to burn off those extra durab (hopefully add up to ~3K quality). And then proceed to the 128CP-Blessing finish.

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Originally Posted by Caimie_Tsukino

Oh that is an interesting approach you got there. Yeah, Whistle could be a nice choice if you expect CP to hit near max soon.

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Upon further testing I am now pretty confident you can skip using Comfort Zone during the MaMa build phase and go with straight whistle.

Build Phase looks like, MaMa, WWYW, IQ, SH1, PBP x3 (141 CP). Then FS your butt off using ToT on at least 6 red balls followed by Satisfaction 3 times, this will recover 165 CP. Use Nymea's as soon as whistle stacks hit 2 and if you are lucky to proc one more red ball you will have full CP and 70 duro ready for the quality phase.

Best to have around 6100 or so total progress at the end of the MaMa stacks, okay to have more but not less. This allows a single CS3 to finish out the craft during the quality phase.

This rotation works with the Build Phase I posted. You need 70 duro and at least 527 CP at the beginning of the quality phase. My current stats are Cft=1494, Ctrl=1356, CP=466. I use HQ Tempura Platter and HQ Cunning Tea to bring my CP up to 533 total.

https://i.imgur.com/SC2kvt7.png

Of note, in order to get the optimizer to compute properly I added IQ into the quality phase, this should already be present during the previous build phase so ignore it, this will leave you 1 additional CZ stack that I usually just observe to get back 1 CP :).

With some decent RNG I believe I can 100% HQ these crafts with no HQ starting mats.

What I was doing was hitting a masters mend after the 3 pieces by piece. But I liked your idea of adding something else there and using manipII to get 10 more back since you almost always get all the cp back but I don't like rng in my crafts so I changed it a little and ended with this

https://imgur.com/a/3c1PS

0-100%
24 cp left over which will cover bad rng
no tea
seafood stew can even NQ it
no rng, well you can use a precise touch instead of basic touch on the first one if you get good rng
the +50 control is cause I don't have the shoes/hands yet

a more experienced crafter I'm sure can make changes to this and id like to see them

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Originally Posted by Caimie_Tsukino

Finisher Phase Variant A:
SH II, GS, Ingen2, Innov, Miracle (IQ down to 6), GS, Brow.

Finisher Phase Variant B:
SH, GS, Ingen2, Innov, Blessing.

In Variant A, the Miracle gave 9540. The Brow gave 5021. Total = 14561.
In Variant B, the Blessing gave 11448.
The quality difference between the two variants = 3113.

Variant A needed a total of 167 CP.
Variant B needed a total of 128 CP.
The CP difference between the two variants = 39 CP.

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Is variant A really worth it given Brow's 30% failure rate and not covered by SH2?

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Originally Posted by Lyraele

Is variant A really worth it given Brow's 30% failure rate and not covered by SH2?

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As of Patch 4.05, Brow now has 100% success rate when used by a Specialist.
For more details of other changes of skills, please visit:
Caimie's Crafting Guide (Part 4 Stormblood)
http://ffxivrealm.com/guides/ff14-advanced-crafting-guide-part-4-stormblood-by-caimie-tsukino.194/
It is not a completed guide yet, but it does hold some useful information including all the changes of old skills in Ch 53.

Oh wow. I did not know that. Off to the guide to get edumacated! Thanks!

@Camie - was reading your guide at lunch and looked at http://ffxivrealm.com/threads/storm-...tations.16483/ at the 2* rotation's in the simulator. And the picture there shows no food, but additions to Craftsmanship of 53 and CP of 58. Where are those stats coming from if not food or medicine? Or is that just something like HQ Tempura Platter in use but the simulator didn't have that as an option at the time? Thanks in advance and thanks for writing such clear guides to crafting, it's a big help to us n00bs.