Tips on being a mentor but not sounding bossy

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by bswpayton

Your totally right, now I feel bad last night I asked a rdm (was leveling my dragoon) why they wernt using scatter on the pull after second boss but really I notice it the whole dungeon. I could have said you know scatter works better on multiple mobs instead of why arent u using scatter. I guess I get so triggered by players not aoeing I couldnt help myself but I will definitively try to be more polite about it now.

---

Either way you ask can backfire. I remember one time doing Aery when leveling my BLM with a friend(IIRC he was WHM). The tank(PLD) was using only Provoke to initiate all pulls, he was using Flash and his rotations properly, but only Provoke to get the first of the mobs attention. When my friend asked why he preferred to use Provoke over Shield Lob(didn't say anything about using Shield Lob being better than Provoke, just why he preferred one over the other), he basically lost his shit and refused to move any further into the dungeon(we were right before the second boss). Even the PLDs friend, who was in there and stayed after we kicked the PLD, said that he can be difficult but it generally a nice guy. We finished the run with no problem after getting a replacement tank.

So even questions regarding why someone prefers one thing over another can set people off...which is one reason I tend to stay quiet in parties unless people REALLY need the advice/input that I can give.

For some players it doesn't matter how nice or helpful you're trying to be they won't have any part of it. I still remember this one time I tried to give a tip to this healer in one dungeon and they replied with "Don't tell me how 2 heal" and ignored what I said. There's no reasoning with those types of people.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ffchampion

if you are doing the mentor roulette what i'd personally advise is as you load in just a simple message saying something like "hello, i've joined from the mentor roulette. if you have questions please feel free to ask"

---

That would really only work for questions about the dungeon though. The problem is the people who won't ask questions about their class or role because they think they're already doing it right because no one has ever told them that they're doing it wrong.

Example: I encountered a Warrior once who kept losing aggro to large packs of mobs. If the pack had more than one mob, I fully expected him to lose aggro on several of them, and sure enough, a few seconds into every pull most of the mobs would go tearing after the Black Mage. I started watching what he was doing and realized he wasn't using Overpower or cycling through targets with his enmity combo. After [politely] pointing out that weaving Overpowers would keep him from having to chase after errant mobs, he said that he always assumed that mobs "suddenly" losing aggro was merely a mechanic SE added to make dungeons more difficult. He was surprised that no one had ever bothered to tell him he was doing it wrong, especially when it was such an easy thing to fix. He started weaving Overpowers into his rotation and didn't lose aggro again for the rest of the dungeon.

They won't ask about something they think they already know or don't know that they don't know it. If they're doing something wrong and you know better you should say something.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by seraf

For some players it doesn't matter how nice or helpful you're trying to be they won't have any part of it. I still remember this one time I tried to give a tip to this healer in one dungeon and they replied with "Don't tell me how 2 heal" and ignored what I said. There's no reasoning with those types of people.

---

There will always be people who are not open to advice, but with the others its can depend a lot on how you approach it. It sounds like OP went about it in an accusatory way ("Why aren't you using scatter?") vs. something more neutral sounding (Heyo! You may want to try using scatter on larger packs (or something similar)). Even if advice is well-intentioned, approaching them with the former is probably a good way to put their bristles up.

On a personal note, I'm currently working on leveling my PLD. I'm really not that confident with the job, and am absolute chicken shit about going into dungeons/roulettes with it. I first leveled it to 50 back near launch, and haven't touched it until recently. I totally welcome advice because I DO want to play the job well, but it would totally crush me if someone came at me in a negative way or just straight out attacked me over something.

This is normally where people will chime in that I just need a thicker skin, or perhaps tanking isn't for me. There is probably some truth in there, but it's also not difficult to just be decent to your fellow players and give advice if you have some to share. Give people the benefit of the doubt that they may be trying their best, and perhaps just don't realize there is a better way.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Skivvy

There will always be people who are not open to advice, but with the others its can depend a lot on how you approach it. It sounds like OP went about it in an accusatory way ("Why aren't you using scatter?") vs. something more neutral sounding (Heyo! You may want to try using scatter on larger packs (or something similar)). Even if advice is well-intentioned, approaching them with the former is probably a good way to put their bristles up.

---

I don't think you should have to word things like you're speaking to a small child just to tell someone that there's a better way they should be doing things. I'm not advocating cursing someone out, but, "why aren't you using X?" is a perfectly valid question. Instead of getting all defensive that person should instead be thinking "Oh, I should be using that ability, then?" or maybe explain their thought process to the rest of the class.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by bswpayton

But its still just no excuse to me , for a player to be wearing a level 23 ring in a level 50 dungeon.

---

Just remember that your advice may not always be the best answer.

You are free to give your advice, but you should know when to stop forcing something if someone just has another (acceptable) way to do it.

For this ring example, it could go something like this:

"Hey, did you know you have a low level ring equipped?"
"Yeah, I'll get another for free eventually in the dungeons, so I'm good with it."

...this is an acceptable answer.
It may not be optimal as far as DPS for that dungeon goes, and it may not be to your liking... but, really, it's hardly affecting the party at all and isn't that big of a deal and they're aware of it and they're solution is also acceptable.

So there's no reason to kick anyone here, just roll your eyes (not in text chat... :p) and finish the dungeon.

Of course, if they get all mad and insult you back or something... then feel free (and rightful) to kick them.

The situation can be different as well...
In doing leveling dungeons from 50-to-60+... you'll reach a point where you finish the 59 dungeon and can queue for the 61 dungeon without upgrading your gear.
Again, it's true they could say "well, I'll pick up the gear from leveling dungeons again anyway, so I'm good..." as a defense, but this is not acceptable in this situation.

In this situation, the gear difference from 59-to-61 (the entire HW expansion) is so great that the player is a huge detriment to the party. In this situation it's quite acceptable to explain how they can get better gear (Poetics tomes in Idylshire or 60 dungeons) and prolong the discussion. Hopefully they'll say something like "oh, really? I'll look into that as soon as I'm done!" and you won't have to kick them. But kicking them in this situation is much more reasonable than kicking someone using a 36-ring in a 50-dungeon.

TL/DR - It's all situational, just think before you kick or assume you're right.

I would suggest if your mentoring and perhaps start wiping, ask them if they would like tips. Or give some kind of notice, example: "Just a tip: I notice that .... perhaps you may want to ..."

Also Mentors shouldn't take things personal, sometimes we have to take the lead if the party is falling a part. Be open to suggestions and remind them your not trying to put them down, just trying to complete the task at hand.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mavrias

I don't think you should have to word things like you're speaking to a small child just to tell someone that there's a better way they should be doing things. I'm not advocating cursing someone out, but, "why aren't you using X?" is a perfectly valid question. Instead of getting all defensive that person should instead be thinking "Oh, I should be using that ability, then?" or maybe explain their thought process to the rest of the class.

---

"Why aren't you using scatter" vs. "Try using scatter in packs" - vastly different tones between two fairly similar comments, neither of which are worded for a child. It's really not difficult to be helpful and civil without coming off like you're just harping on someone.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mavrias

I don't think you should have to word things like you're speaking to a small child just to tell someone that there's a better way they should be doing things.

---

Although I agree with your idea (below), I don't agree with this phrase.
I'm not sure exactly how you're using it, but in general such a phrase is tossed about whenever someone wants to defend being a jerk.
And the answer is always the same - yes, you do have to be nice to everyone all the time. You don't get "time off" from being nice so you can be jerk "just this once."

I don't think that's how you meant it, because it doesn't jive quite with the next thing you say.
So I don't mean that as a reprimand with you... just wanted to vent my general distaste for that particular statement :p

Quote:

---

I'm not advocating cursing someone out, but, "why aren't you using X?" is a perfectly valid question. Instead of getting all defensive that person should instead be thinking "Oh, I should be using that ability, then?" or maybe explain their thought process to the rest of the class.

---

With this, I completely agree.
I think saying "why aren't you using X?" is being nice.

Of course, it's quite easy for the rest of the conversation-from-here to either "stay nice" or become a jerk.
Just stay nice. All the time. To everyone. No one, ever, gets a free pass to be a jerk.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Skivvy

"Why aren't you using scatter" vs. "Try using scatter in packs" - vastly different tones between two fairly similar comments, neither of which are worded for a child. It's really not difficult to be helpful and civil without coming off like you're just harping on someone.

---

Being helpful & civil and being critical & direct are not mutually exclusive.

It's really not difficult to not take someone's criticism as them harping on you, either. There is functionally no difference between "use scatter" and "you should try using scatter" but the number of characters. The advice is still sound either way.