Question on DF expectations

Know your stuff. Play reasonably well. Those are my expectations.

I kick people in DF like it's my job. I refuse to carry people through content and let them pollute the DF even further. It sucks having to wait for new tanks and healers sometimes, but people need to know when they are bringing the team down so they can fix it. If I am playing like shit, I expect similar treatment.

A good run is a fast, clean completion. I really don't care about chat or anything like that.

I don't think there's really a set expectation for groups other than SPEAK UP IF YOU'RE NEW. It irritates me that people would fail silently rather than admit they don't know something. That's toxic pride. You're not gonna get kicked if it's a DF group, so speak up so I can make the healers explain the fight.

I use the duty finder because I want to run the content I have selected through it.
Sometimes this is just getting a clear, sometimes this means learning a new fight, sometimes this just means running whatever to get the tokens.

Do I expect people taking the Expert roulette to "gtg fast, clear in 10 mins"? Nope
Do I expect people taking the Trials roulette to know the fight Blindfolded? Nope

I do expect people that pick DF to have the correct gear equipped, to understand the basics and mechanics of their class.
And I expect people to be honest about their experience.
First time doing an instance? Say so, the bonus is giving it away anyways that you're new.
I simply don't expect anything from DF because as stated above, everyone and his pony joins it.

This also means:

1. Don't force your tank to run faster than he's comfortable with
2. Don't force your healer to DPS if he isn't comfortable with it
3. Don't punish DPS for performing badly

Instead ask people if they are open in doing so. Teach them what they are missing.
Too often I get negative cupcakes that ruin the experience for the whole group

You really can't wait those 10 additional minutes?
Then I'm sorry, but the DF is not for you.

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Originally Posted by NekoNova

Teach them what they are missing.
Too often I get negative cupcakes that ruin the experience for the whole group

You really can't wait those 10 additional minutes?
Then I'm sorry, but the DF is not for you.

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You've all seen it before. You see that BLM casting only Fire 3 until out of MP and then they transpose and repeat it over and over. Or that WHM that casts Cure II as soon as tank's HP drops to 95% and never does DPS for some reason. That Warrior that refuses to use Defiance because they say it reduces their damage output and they don't need it for enmity gain. DPS who don't AOE on 6-8 mobs etc, etc.

Then you tell them what they're doing wrong and they often reply to you with "DON'T TELL ME WHAT TO DO" or "I can play the game however I want you elitist jerk" or even nothing at all or they leave the group entirely or vote dismiss you.

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Originally Posted by SuperZay

You've all seen it before. You see that BLM casting only Fire 3 until out of MP and then they transpose and repeat it over and over. Or that WHM that casts Cure II as soon as tank's HP drops to 95% and never does DPS for some reason. That Warrior that refuses to use Defiance because they say it reduces their damage output and they don't need it for enmity gain. DPS who don't AOE on 6-8 mobs etc, etc.

Then you tell them what they're doing wrong and they often reply to you with "DON'T TELL ME WHAT TO DO" or "I can play the game however I want you elitist jerk" or even nothing at all or they leave the group entirely or vote dismiss you.

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I know.
I've ran into them before.
But I still consider them to be a minority, and keep going because the majority of people I run with are good players, even if they are new, they learn.
It's just easier to remember the bad experiences than the good ones.

speed is a measurement of performance. faster the better. period. most people are very understanding when they see there are 1st timer in the dungeon.

as for bad players who doesn't know their rotation... they really should be kicked. it is now 2017 (almost 2018) and there is no excuse for a MMO player not to search on the internet on how to be better at the job they are playing. No one wants to play with a tank that doesn't tank nor a healer that let everyone die; likewise, no one wants a DPS that can't kill.

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Originally Posted by Furiea

speed is a measurement of performance. faster the better. period. most people are very understanding when they see there are 1st timer in the dungeon.

as for bad players who doesn't know their rotation... they really should be kicked. it is now 2017 (almost 2018) and there is no excuse for a MMO player not to search on the internet on how to be better at the job they are playing. No one wants to play with a tank that doesn't tank nor a healer that let everyone die; likewise, no one wants a DPS that can't kill.

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I agree with that to some extend.
But I don't want to play with people that pull every dungeon up to Deltascape 4 Savage requirements

My mentality is - did we clear it? Then it was a good run. Doesn't matter if it took 10 minutes or 40 minutes. DF is a random matching system that tosses players of all skill levels together and you don't know what you're going to get. I can keep my chill there no matter what it throws at me because I don't go in with expectations. If I want to start setting requirements, then I would use PF.

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Originally Posted by tinythinker

What do you think is acceptable?

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It largely depends on me and what my own constraints are.

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Originally Posted by tinythinker

For example, is getting a super-fast speed run the measure of a "good run"? If a run takes 10-15 minutes longer to work with party members who are making a serious effort yet make some mistakes and learn, is that a "bad run"? Do you have criteria for a good run other than speed? And is that extra 10-15 minutes worth dropping back into queue?

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If a run, for me, normally takes 15-20 minutes, adding another 10 to 15 minutes means a run of 25 to 35 minutes. That's nearly two runs that could have been done in the time to get one done. While I wouldn't leave, I'd not be happy either. My time was wasted for no other reason other than someone was potentially too lazy to learn their class.

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Originally Posted by tinythinker

If someone plays the game intermittently, and doesn't have all of the best rotations or dungeons mechanics memorized for each possible roulette, does that make them lazy, dumb, or dead weight? Even if they are constantly casting and open to advice? (Remember, even intermittent players will eventually get jobs to max level and accumulate lots of possible runs for DF to choose from; they can't randomly get something they don't totally remember and go watch a video right then when DF pops.)

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Playing the game on and off is fine and isn't the issue. I don't ride a bike every day. I don't suddenly forget it, either. You don't learn rotations per dungeon- you learn rotations per situation and most of those situations are melee- 4 or more? AoE!

We're also not talking top-of-the-line DPS, either. Just, actually AoE when AoE is needed. Most people that do "bad DPS" in dungeons do things like single target DPS, even with 8+ mobs up because 'they are a melee DPS and melee DPS can't AoE.' They can. They're actually better than the casters in the right hands, they're just not sustainable. However, you don't need sustain DPS when it comes to AoE. I don't even mind smaller pulls- just don't stop.

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Originally Posted by tinythinker

Would you be more or less likely to work with a player or to just drop group if they mention up front they are not going to be able to go full tilt and may need help oe advice? This means even if you queued in hoping for quick run before you logged off and this person is "inconveniencing" you? And, is it reasonable then to queue for DF if you are in a rush?

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I'm more likely to help someone who actually asks. Most people don't ask and if you say anything, they go full hostile. Which makes me want to leave by AFKing for 10 minutes, getting vote dismissed, or vote dismissing them myself. I don't have the time to babysit an onry player, or even a player that says that line about their sub, acting like it's somehow more important than the other 3 people they are in party with.

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Originally Posted by tinythinker

Does it seem realistic to expect getting a party full of people who are all familiar with every aspect of an instance and their job who are going full out? Is not a party with people who at least know/are good at 60-80% of their job a pretty good outcome of a random group in a contemporary MMORPG?

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The beauty of it is that you don't need to know every aspect. Do you know how to AoE? Can you dodge bad? Can you keep up with the rest of the group? That's really all you need.

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Originally Posted by tinythinker

I don't ask these things because of personally being insulted or having to deal with drama in parties, but just to get a sense of where the community is on DF. I've seen hundreds of stories in threads here and elsewhere with many views expressed and am curious to see people's opinions when they aren't complaining about a particular run.

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When it comes to me, I have the mentality of always go ham and don't practice bad habits. It's really easy to enforce bad habits and very hard to break them. I generally hope anyone else using DF has the same expectations to that degree. It really sucks getting people that refuse to AoE; it makes me work harder, be it I'm on WHM or RDM. Also, when I run roulettes, I'm not there for the social aspect of the game; I want tomestones and I want them as quickly as I am able to gather. Pleasantries are, well, 'pleasant' (not a fan of people, so this is subjective for me), but I want to reach the end of the dungeon ASAP.

There's a huge difference between being bad, everyone working together and "let's treat this like savage." I've yet to ever encounter a time where it ever felt like savage, though I suppose to someone who does bad, it may feel like it (though I question if they ever stepped into savage if they feel like that?) when they are suddenly pressured into doing something they clearly want no part of, for better or for worse.

My only criteria is EFFORT.
I don't care if you're new player or an old time raider, how much damage you dish out or how many overmelds you have - there's ways to see how invested you are in being a good asset to the team that go beyond those things.
Cooldown usage, usage of team utility skills, even your TP/MP/cast bars. :P