Some healers make me panic

Calm down fumofu.
Healers who do let tanks have their bar on low life know what they are doing and will keep everyone alive.

When you have spend a lot of time healing in this game, you know how to analyze damages your tank is taking.

I'm part of those. None of my tanks has ever die. None have complain about it. Everything were always fine.
I however adjust. If I see the tank i'm running with not using defensive cooldown and take huge amount of damages, I sometimes won't dps at all.

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Originally Posted by fumofu

I absolutely hate this kind of healers who tries to 'push dps' at expense of more healing. Good healer is the one who keeps me alive and don't make me feel like I could die at any moment. Healer dps isn't really such a big deal. Now, if healer dps and:
1) any dd dies - now that's a big dps loss.
2) tank dies - possible wipe
I'd say big risk for... little bit of extra dps healer provides?
I'd rather have healer just heal and throw dps once in a while when it's really safe than recklessly pushing his dps and risking failing his job which is... KEEPING PARTY ALIVE!

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You need to chill.

I've seen healers drop me to basically nothing and pull me back up. Until a healer gives me reason not to, I assume they know what they're doing. The power of healing in this game is wasted by keeping the tank topped off.

You'll gradually figure out the conventions to it all. Chances are they're tracking your CDs or expecting you to deploy them in certain timings sensible for the dungeon. I suggest you learn how to track theirs as well. Look up their cooldowns, know what they look like, start thinking about the pulls necessary for it to recharge. If they have Benediction, for instance, they'll let you plummet, and will expect you to pop Convalescence at the very end of this health, as they'll probably follow up the drop with a HoT and go back to DPSing for another 15s or so. As a WHM have no other means of meaningful contribution after a single global of Aero III, most WHM would prefer you hold Hallowed Ground until after Holy mitigation, as not to waste it, if they can keep you safe in the interim anyways (e.g. if running with you). If you pop Living Dead, they may refuse to HoT for fear of it ticking just enough to prevent Walking Dead over Living Dead's duration, causing it to fade and the next auto-attack to really kill you. A WHM will wait until the last second of Walking Dead to Benediction you (or rather, the second to last, so that it has a chance to hit somewhere within the last, given its ridiculous delay).

Healers may Regen both themselves and then you during a pull in order to shave a GCD off the actual fight. They may expect you to hold onto Blood Price for 6 seconds while they mass-stun for brief 100% mitigation, which means they'll expect you to regen your mana or TP pre-pull in order to deal AoE enmity before they're murdered after the stuns let up. Yes, that means dropping Darkside out of combat. Yes, that means making use of Deliverance-Equilibrium and/or preparing 50 Defiance gauge for Steel Cyclone, preferably with a lingering Storm's Eye. If you Requiescat when out of TP, a WHM or AST will expect you to self-heal while they AoE. After all, you can do so more efficiently than they can, and you have no other significant means of contribution.

The main thing is not to panic when the healer seems to be in control despite how low he's letting you drop; you may well consume a CD that he is actually counting on later, thereby causing an actual panic situation later, especially if DPS falls below expectation.

Healing/tanking in trash generally has far more to do with CDs (oGCD healing, your percentile mitigation, and burst AoE) than outright (especially on the GCD) HPS.

NOTE: So far the only times I have died or let die from DPSing are when...
a) I cleaved the healer, interrupting him.
b) The tank cleaved me, interrupting me.
c) an attack too strong to heal through without interruption targeted the healer and s/he had to move while I happened to take multiple crits.
d) an attack too strong to heal through without interruption targeted the me and I had to move while the tank happened to take multiple crits.
e) I forgot to turn Regen off when only pulling 3 packs at once of Doma Castle, so that I didn't actually "die" during Living Dead, but half a second afterwards.
f) I used Regen unnecessarily on a tank pulling the double soldier (+Reaper) packs in Doma Castle, keeping him from activating Walking Dead. He died shortly after while I expected he would be in his health-capped period.
g) Tried to Benediction the tank while he was d/cing, using it cautiously early due to my own lag spikes. 2 seconds later Walking Dead faded. Then it went off on his corpse.

i paired up with this kind healers, i died a few times, the thing is its not our fault... i got my CD and LD on cooldown, they dont heal you until you drop to 10% or they are really busy with spamming holy or no mana at all, the bottom line they are not doing there job at all.

let them be, its not our fault...

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Originally Posted by Rawrz

Good healers will always push DPS. If the rate of damage is slow, sure Ill let you hit 20

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This is just asking for trouble.

I dunno about other tanks, but I HATE this with a purple passion.

Your #1 job is to HEAL. IF you have EXTRA time, THEN you can throw out a little DPS. Letting me go way down to 20% wondering if I'm going to get an incoming heal or not is not doing your job whatsoever, especially not in Stormblood content where you can have random bouts of 30%+ HP damage, especially on those larger pulls that everybody is bugging me to do.

Sometimes I might not see that stupid AoE marker because of all the mobs piled up ontop of it. Sometimes I have a split second lag that causes me to eat something that on my screen it looks like I was well outside the range of before the mob was finished casting.

If anything like this happens when I am 20%, I am dead plain and simple and you would have failed your job as a healer.

And what if lag happens and your heal doesn't get off as soon as you would like and you're a second too late? I've seen incoming heals when I was 500-1k HP (as a 41k+ tank!) in some Stormblood dungeons. I'm like "Hello? Heal?" and a split second before I drop dead, I get healed..... barely enough to take the next hit. Then the healer has to spam heals to get me back up to at least half and I end up spamming Clemency because I do NOT like being that low.

But if I'm spamming Clemency, that means less MP for Flash or Holy Spirit, that means I can't use Requiescat for extra DPS (because that is reliant upon MP) and it just causes all sorts of problems.

And, not to mention, heal-bombing the tank is a lot of spike threat instead of applying that threat gradually by keeping the tank in the 50-75% range like you're supposed to. It just isn't a good idea.

As a healer, I would never do this whatsoever. Yes, I put out less damage, but tanks never have to feel nervous when I'm healing, and to be honest, the runs aren't THAT much slower if I keep a tank 50-75%.

EDIT: BTW, I get a LOT of commendations when I play Healer. I guess this might be why...

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Originally Posted by Maeka

This is just asking for trouble.

I dunno about other tanks, but I HATE this with a purple passion.

Your #1 job is to HEAL. IF you have EXTRA time, THEN you can throw out a little DPS.

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They clearly have extra time. For any GCD in which not healing us won't let you us, they technically have extra time. That doesn't mean they should wait and Cure II when they could have used Regen earlier in order to heal more DPS overall, but... I really would have hoped this was more obvious.

Yes, latency and tank screw-ups, rotational or worse, are worthwhile considerations. But so long as they're being factored in, and not actually forcing nonoptimal CD usage, alive is alive.

The OP is why I'm switching over to Paladin

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Originally Posted by Shurrikhan

They clearly have extra time. For any GCD in which not healing us won't let you us, they technically have extra time. That doesn't mean they should wait and Cure II when they could have used Regen earlier in order to heal more DPS overall, but... I really would have hoped this was more obvious.

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They clearly DON'T have extra time if I'm hitting 500-1000 HP left on 41k+ before the heal lands. This means they are BARELY keeping ahead of the damage, and sorry but I don't know some RandomHealer393482 well enough to trust that I will actually get the heal in time.

So, I end up spamming more Clemency which kills my threat output because I don't trust the healer, because he is NOT keeping me comfortably healed. I don't care about Healer DPS. Sorry, I don't. The Healer could keep me 100% at all times and not throw a single Stone and I would be happier than almost dying on every pull.

Now obviously some middle-ground would be nice. An Aero III or some Stone going on near the end of the pull when the incoming damage has tapered off, sure. But I don't like feeling tempted to blow Hallowed Ground because some Healer doesn't look like he can hack the content because I keep dropping way down in health constantly.

Maybe the healer is "good" (I use this term loosely) enough to know exactly when to throw the heal, but I don't know him or trust him enough with that. Sorry, I don't.

EDIT: And I'm starting to really hate seeing SCHs in my groups. They keep wanting to DPS, but after as many nerfs as that class has gotten, and the fact that they can barely keep you alive even when they aren't DPSing... I get nervous seeing that dreaded symbol appear on my 4mans. I find myself going "whm please...." before I see the group composition. The SCHs that try to DPS are even worse... a couple groups I've felt tempted to abandon duty because I nearly drop dead every other pull and their DPS ain't even all that great anyways. I'd rather they would spend more time keeping me alive than trying to act like a 3rd DPS. No offense to the good SCHs out there, I feel for you guys, your class was nerfed to oblivion... but if you simply must play SCH... then be a bit more careful, please.

Can't edit on mobile? That's dumb. Anyway, ever since bloodbath + vengeance combo was taken away, I feel like I've lost too much control my damage recovery. Paladin self healing is too strong to ignore.

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Originally Posted by Galgarion

Can't edit on mobile? That's dumb. Anyway, ever since bloodbath + vengeance combo was taken away, I feel like I've lost too much control my damage recovery. Paladin self healing is too strong to ignore.

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With the way mobs hit in Castrum Abania and beyond... trust me, even Clemency isn't all that powerful unless it crits. I can heal myself for 9k HP. I have ~42k. Big whoop. Special attacks from bosses do 10-15k quite regularly, and some do even more than that, and these are unavoidable.

About the last boss of Castrum Abania, you start to discover that you are NOT as invincible as you used to think you were. I mean sure, in some place like Shisui, or even Doma Castle, that Clemency spell is sweet indeed... but it falls off rather quickly.