No. I said it in my OP, and added another possible approach in replies to you:Quote:
Originally Posted by Vespar
Either
A) make it so that the activation of a combo action step requires the combo action to validate (2 wont even be clickable if 1 wasn't the previous action)
B) Make it so that there is a reason for using 2 outside a combo (additional effects should not require combo action, only the damage increase should.)
The more I read this, the more I think it may as well, if replies are going to mindlessly reply to posts...Quote:
So you want the game to become a mindless button masher?
You need to work on your reading abilities, or maybe my English just sucks and I cant communicate this properly. A perfectly valid possibility, the later.Quote:
Also, I was unaware that just using Heavy Swing over and over on WAR was superior. I dont play WAR but that seems pretty boring as hell if you ask me... How's that work out for you holding hate over AOE classes like SMN?
Heavy Swing > Heavy Swing > Heavy Swing
Will ALWAYS be better than:
Storm Path > Heavy Swing > Heavy Swing
Because Storm path out of combo potency is only 100, while Heavy Swing potency is always 150.
At no point will using Storm Path outside of a combo be a thought. It's not a choice. You either use it in combo, or never use it because it's useless otherwise. It's not the same as deciding to time Straight shot.
Mandatory Combos
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05-25-2017, 04:21 AMOgulbuk
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05-25-2017, 04:30 AMRaijinSupreme
ehh. i'm not 2 years old. the combos light up if im not mistaken. That's a suggestion enough that i should use that move next.
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05-25-2017, 04:32 AMVesparMy apologies for misunderstanding you and I updated my previous post accordingly. Unfortunately, I was not quick enough before you responded to it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ogulbuk
I atleast get this much. Mayhaps you should try out MNK as it does kind of force you to use a combo in the way you describe (or atleast to some degree). But that being said, I dont feel like every job that uses a 1-2-3 combo-style needs to have this method of execution. The combo actions already light up in "glowing ant trail" you described. So, it should be somewhat visually obvious what to do next.
Really, it mostly sounds like you want people to learn to read their tooltips and perform their combos like they should. I firmly believe this should be up the player to know what their actions do and adjust accordingly. XIV does not need to be a mindless button masher just to cater to the folks who already dont care enough to read. -
05-25-2017, 04:41 AMPowercowThe reason for that is the entire reason video games rely on failstates to BE a video game. If someone literally can not make a mistake, then the game is boring. It's like saying a shooter shouldn't let you fire unless your crosshairs are over the enemy and the shot will hit.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ogulbuk
This would require an insane amount of rebalancing of abilities and jobs in general. The idea that, yeah, you CAN'T just throw up Storm's Path whenever you feel like it on your first hit makes it more important that you keep it up by doing the entire combo. It's a much greater investment of time to actually land Storm's Path if it's at the end of a 3-chain combo. In the case of warriors specifically, it's impossible to keep up the slashing debuff, storm's path, AND do your highest damage/threat combo regularly.Quote:
B) Make it so that there is a reason for using 2 outside a combo (additional effects should not require combo action, only the damage increase should.)
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05-25-2017, 04:50 AMBurnharts
I dont think he is advocating for making all jobs a 1 button wonder. Dragoons have a couple "combos" that can get hectic when trying to keep buffs and debuffs up as well as making sure you are following mechanics of the fight. I know my fingers sometimes jump the gun and will hit the 2nd part of a combo, rendering far less damage and having the whole rotation get fubared. Its more about making those parts of a rotation easier to do. I main a bard so this is not an issue, but when I play my dragoon I struggle with this.
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05-25-2017, 05:42 AMKaonis
OP has it mostly right. Though what really needs addressing is the fundamental fact that the combo system really adds nothing t game play as it stands. Outside combo, abilities are worthless (and no, super highly niche situations don't count), and even some weapon skills only exist as part of the combos. For example on WAR, heavy swing exists purely to lead into the other 2 combo chains, and skull sunder only exists as a mid combo before butcher's block. There's no reason for this. It also puts lots of emphasis on needing to get that final combo in as it's the one that matters; which is beyond annoying when the boss jumps/goes invincible just long enough for you to lose combo, let alone when other abilities take away your combo status (looking at you PLD casting clemency). By comparison when I used to raid in SWTOR on my Juggernaut, I could have moments where I am not on the boss, then get right back in and pick up my rotation where I left off. In XIV you usually have to just restart completely from the beginning which is just annoying.
Outside MNK who is a bit of a unique case with combos, they could be deleted and reworked and the game wouldn't suffer. I'd argue it'd be better for it. I'd rather have 6 weapon skills in my rotation to use that each had some role by themselves, outside having 6 where 2-3 of them exist purely as button/ability slot filler for the ones I want to use. -
05-25-2017, 06:02 AMShurrikhanSimplified systems =/= intuitive systems. The OP's aim seems to more closely resemble the latter. Removing absolute false choices does not simplify a system. It just puts up fewer (even if minor) roadblocks.Quote:
Originally Posted by zXr
If the "combo" skills had reason to be used out of combo, and then we removed that ability, then such would impair or outright cripple gameplay surrounding those abilities. But there is no such reason. Each combo is in itself one decision, essentially one ability. There's nothing loss in making its controls follow its design.
Now, I'd rather each skill be usable separately with varying synergies that allow for various strategic "open" combos, but short of that, why reject an intuitive system for what's actually being given. Are we too in love with the concept that we're given multiple skills even while hesitant to have any additional thought or strategy expected of us as to make use of them? If combos work for you, that's the design. The rest is just making the UI actually fit, rather than hinting at something more and being unwilling to provide it -- almost with mocking contempt.
How is 1, 2, 3; 1, 4, 5; 1, 4, 6 any less mindless than 1, 1, 1; 1, 2, 1; 1, 2, 2?Quote:
Originally Posted by Vespar
I have no issue handling every key on my three bars. With my Caps turned into a Right Alt, it's even nearly comfortable. The issue is future proofing and, frankly, that the option is obvious given how the skills are currently treated in game. True Thrust is not a separate decision from Full Thrust. Once you've started the chain, you complete the chain. So how does it warrant 4 keys to do 1 function (pure DMG + 15s BotD)?Quote:
Originally Posted by DaikiKiyoshi
It's a matter of future-proofing. Unless SE wants to cut out even more skills that DO actually have tactical weight or decisions behind them, our bars are going to fill up, and the amount of binds will become uncomfortable to access all of—not in Stormblood, and, if they skimp on raw ability count, not even the expansion after. But it will happen. So why would you not take the opportunity to remove redundancies? Is Warrior made more interesting for having to use two different slots for Fell Cleave and Inner Beast (unless one wishes to macro them)?
In the brief example I gave, you go from 1-6 to 1 & 2 being used, for the exact SAME spread of abilities, and the SAME number of possible choices accessible at each juncture. How does taking up another 4 buttons at all times without them ever being usable at all times increase complexity? By your view, every Monk must already be mentally impaired, because (OH NO!!!) they can't actually flub 2/3s the amount of skills you can. And guess what? They at least have a skill that makes all their weaponskills simultaneously available. No one else does.
tl;dr
Why? Button bloat. -
05-25-2017, 07:50 AMDaikiKiyoshiQuote:
Originally Posted by Shurrikhan
If they are so mindless why even ask for a change? All I'm seeing is another thread asking for a solution to a nonissue because some people are apparently so mindless that they can't even string together combos as they currently are. Let's just allow bots because that's where this line of thinking ultimately leads. "Oh em gee I can't press so many buttons for combos, why can't we just have one button to press so I can keep picking my nose while I play??" 5.0 rolls around "OH EM JAY pressing 1 button is HAAARD, let us use bots so I can watch my little pony while the game clears savage for me!!"
Please delete thread. -
05-25-2017, 08:36 AMWelsper59Basically this. I don't think people understand how their suggestions are pretty much a regurgitation of the same thing they have criticism for. I'm guessing it's because it's their idea, therefore it somehow functions differently lol. I don't think their point is that it's hard, just that it's what they see as unnecessary. For the same reason that they think it's unnecessary though, the contrary of it is not even remotely needed. To realize that though, people need to take a step back and view their suggestion as an outsider (objectively). If the devs feel the need to change it, fine. If they don't, fine. It's a non issue being promoted as though it were game changing.Quote:
Originally Posted by DaikiKiyoshi
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05-25-2017, 09:17 AMMholitoEven with consolidated combos, it isn't gonna make you do good dps. You'd still have the same amount of skills to use, and you'd still have to know when to use them in order to maximise dps. It also isn't gonna use your abilities for you.Quote:
Originally Posted by DaikiKiyoshi
Sure, random "You-don't-pay-my-sub" dps number 5819 might end up doing 1000 dps instead of the 200 he did before, but that's still not gonna compare to the 4000 dps done by those that know how to play their job. Meanwhile, it's also gonna free up hotbar space, which means people can pack their skills closer together, so they won't need to do some weird finger gymnastics to reach rarely used skills anymore, and the extra space leaves room open for adding more interesting skills in the future.