[Suggestion] Upgrading the Limit Break system

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Originally Posted by Gemina

Since I heal 99% of the time in this game and don't really raid, asking me to LB is like telling your third string quarterback to hop into the game.

I very much would like something like along the lines of a personal LB to use. It wouldn't even have to be all that powerful, and just something to make things easier for a few seconds, get some extra deeps in.

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Precisely what my FC mate was talking about. Atm, at LB 1/2, tank and healer LBs are pretty much useless. The defense provided by the tank LB before LB3 is negligible and if a healer LB's before LB3, he's probably trolling. It would be great if they offered a unique buff of sorts to try and cut down the monopoly on the LB held by the DPS classes.

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Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth

What happens then, if you don't have such and such job with you where it did matter?

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We would be in the same conundrum as you would be if you attempted A10s with 4 melee dps :D

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Originally Posted by Okita

It would be great if they offered a unique buff of sorts to try and cut down the monopoly on the LB held by the DPS classes.

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The issue is that LBs are shared, so only one person would ever get to LB: The one whose LB adds the most damage to the raid, whether through direct damage, buffs or a combination of the two. That is the precise reason why melees largely have a monopoly on it (and why ranged DPS get it in dungeons).

To solve this issue, LBs would have to be taken from the group and become a personal thing. Then however they screw with job balance - If two jobs have the same contribution outside of LBs, the one with the better LB is picked. At least, though, you'd ensure that everyone who does get picked gets to LB ever so often.

Pretty much a no from developers, since the idea behind LBs is either a recover button, defense button or offensive button when the other 2 options aren't needed.

Attempting to make it more than that would just ruin it's simplistic design, to serve as a tool to either aid in making combat end quicker or the ability to recover.

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Originally Posted by Zojha

The issue is that LBs are shared, so only one person would ever get to LB: The one whose LB adds the most damage to the raid, whether through direct damage, buffs or a combination of the two. That is the precise reason why melees largely have a monopoly on it (and why ranged DPS get it in dungeons).

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I think most players know why DPS jobs have the monopoly with LBs. It just makes more sense for them to use it the majority of the time. Therein lies the issue. Tank and healer roles rarely get to use theirs, and when the time comes, they might not even have it on their cross/hotbars.

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Originally Posted by Zojha

To solve this issue, LBs would have to be taken from the group and become a personal thing. Then however they screw with job balance - If two jobs have the same contribution outside of LBs, the one with the better LB is picked. At least, though, you'd ensure that everyone who does get picked gets to LB ever so often.

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Keep the group LBs as is. The LB3 should still be game-changing powerful. Instead introduce a new general action that gives players their own personal LB that builds based on their actions, favoring offense. This would mean tanks and healers can further optimize their roles by adding DPS to their repertoire, and the LB rewards these efforts by what they do best: a free single target/group heal/buff for healers, and a strong defensive/offensive buff for tanks. DPS will get theirs too, but will be less powerful/provide less utility for them in comparison to tanks and healers, but will still be balanced because filling the gauge will be easy for them due to it being based on offense, thus be able to use theirs more frequently. Basically, they harder they kill, the more they get to use their own LB.

Special and unique abilities are very rewarding to use, and make combat a hell of a lot more interesting. I am turning this into my own request as well.

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Originally Posted by Okita

Precisely what my FC mate was talking about. Atm, at LB 1/2, tank and healer LBs are pretty much useless. The defense provided by the tank LB before LB3 is negligible and if a healer LB's before LB3, he's probably trolling. It would be great if they offered a unique buff of sorts to try and cut down the monopoly on the LB held by the DPS classes.

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In 4-man content, LB2 by the tank or healer can be quite useful if the group is in trouble. IIRC tank LB2 is like an Adlo crit+deployment tactics from a SCH, and healers restore 80% of health for free. I believe the general rule is: if boss health > party health then either the tank or healer should LB2 and who gets it between these two is contingent on the healer's mana pool. In 8-man they could still be helpful depending on how many players and which jobs are still up, but otherwise only a fully charged LB gauge in very certain situations warrants their use by these two roles. IOW, practically never in the content I run, but can't speak for relevant raids and savage content. EX primals still favor DPS LB3 from my experience as well.

I feel the implementation of a personal LB is a great opportunity to reward players for their skill. Like I suggested, no need to make them crazy powerful, but good enough and with a cool animation that players will strive to fill their gauges so they can use it.

What if they reworked it so everyone had personal LBs (like PVP only a bit more balanced for PVE) and then using them at the same time would trigger a bonus effect like the current group ones?

Imagine the arguments.

The current system is a bit silly; I seem to spend most of my time in dungeons as a healer begging the people who get to press the button to remember it exists. I wouldn't really want personal and group ones to be separate though; that's a whole extra button for no real reason. I don't actually know what the healer LB3 looks like as every time I have used it I've been so desperately stressed out I haven't been able to watch it properly.

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Originally Posted by Serilda

What if they reworked it so everyone had personal LBs (like PVP only a bit more balanced for PVE) and then using them at the same time would trigger a bonus effect like the current group ones?

Imagine the arguments.

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Well, the idea I proposed isn't exactly a new concept. The TP gauge system in XI pretty much is a combination of what you and I have suggested in our statements. In case you are unaware, XI's TP system gave each job their own set of unique actions called weapon skills, and had multiple ones depending on the class of weapon. Two players could time their attacks to execute what I believe was referred to as limit breaks in that game. A caster could then contribute their own damage by casting a spell of a corresponding element to execute a magic burst which increased the accuracy and potency of the spell they cast.

Due to this sophistication, TP burn parties were found to be more optimal as increasing your accuracy and executing your highest damage TP attack didn't rely on the coordination of others. That said, I would keep it this way in this game and make the personal LBs personally rewarding and not relied upon the other members of your party.

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Originally Posted by Gemina

Two players could time their attacks to execute what I believe was referred to as limit breaks in that game. A caster could then contribute their own damage by casting a spell of a corresponding element to execute a magic burst which increased the accuracy and potency of the spell they cast.

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Was called a skill chain. Done in w/ 2-3 weapon skills depending on the elemental magic burst you wanted to do. =x

Cool on paper but considering current balance issues I don't think adding special effects on the LB's of certain jobs would be advantageous to that balance..

As for the personal LB suggestion - many jobs do have "personal LBs" in a sense already..

Benediction.
Holmgang.
Hallowed Ground.
Living Dead.
Perfect Balance.

Just to name a few...

All you are suggesting with personal LB's is to add another skill tied to a "cooldown" of sorts (in the way that you have to fill the LB bar up before using it) that gives you a one-off strong "whatever your role does" action.

I mean it's cool in theory though you might as well just give every job a new high-CD skill without having to add another battle mechanic to the game.

Limit breaks are party wide for the very reason that it's a "shared" action that can be decided upon how to use it.. Giving everyone a personal LB is just the same as giving everyone a new high-CD skill.