New Tank and Crowd Control

In most PvE instances, specially low level ones, CC isn't really a factor - in fact I'd say the most use CC skills ever see is in PvP :P So my two cents is, don't count on it, don't expect it. This matter is further made obvious by the fact that the best CC skills are usually WHM/BLM sleep skills, and they're rendered useless by most tanks since their aoe enmity generating skills wake up the mobs...

I personally only ever bothered with sleep and other CC skills when the tank/healer were so bad I could foresee numerous wipes incoming if we didn't take one mob at a time.

Some other things to note about Hard CC in ff14- Diminishing returns, and break on damage.

Sleep and Bind, an effective stun and an immobilize, are cleansed on the target that take damage. This renders them nearly useless in AoE situations, I.E the only real situation where CC would be needed. This makes abilities like sleep a waste of MP and time spent not dealing damage. Thus, since the mob is free immediately, they still do the damage.

The only true CC we have that cannot be broken are Stuns and Silences.
Silences, are always 1s interrupt ability for spells (assuming the mob isnt immune, like a boss) that have to be timed to be effective. The true power of silence is that it cannot be resisted from diminishing returns. it will always act as an interrupt if the mob isnt immune.

Stun, on the other hand, is hard CC that only few random mobs will be immune to. it's generally only bosses that cant be stunned. Stun is actually quite powerful, HOWEVER, it's very rare you will ever be able to get a crucial stun off because mobs will resist any and all stuns for... either 30 seconds or 1 minute after being stunned 3 times. Melee DPS like DRG and NIN have stuns they use religiously on cooldown because "free damage". that will make mobs immune fast.

this is the diminishing returns i've mentioned. each application of any CC (aside from silence) will have it's duration cut in half, and after 3 successful application, the target will be immune. This is another slap to sleep, as not only is it cleansed before it does anything, if you do it again, it's half as long...

As you can see, while CC would otherwise be useful, there are too many factors in play for it to well... control anything. It's a sad state of affairs to be sure. An unfortunate case of design working against the system

I remember using Sleep as BLM/WHM early-ish. It can be somewhat sorta useful maybe when you get it, up until you reach a point where AoE takes priority over burning single mobs. I think the last place it had any real use for me was Brayflox.

Personally, it felt good, once tank had aggro, to just sleep anything we weren't hitting. Focus the DPS, tank is taking less hits, healer needs to heal less and can damage more, seemed like a win all around. But the reality is, as soon as AoE attacks are in the picture, Sleep is a wasted effort.

And the same can be said for pretty much anything else. Applying Heavy is useless when you want everything grouped. Bind is pointless if everything is already together (and again, removed when they get hit).

Basically, as the tank, you are the crowd control. You get the crowd under your control so the rest of the party can burn them all down at once.

I leveled whm first at 2.0 release, everything was new so many groups actually used CC then, flash doesnt break sleep so it was a solid answer to paladin threat issues early on. havent see that in years though

Yes I have to admit, vs other mmos i've played, this lack of cc mechanic sorta makes dungeon group dymanic a bit stale. I did enjoy the various responsibilities of many classes having to coordinate cc with tank, tank having to work around not waking up cc'd mobs, and you really only having a few tries or a small dps timer in the form of diminishing returns on the cc to get the pull right.

Also, a small mechanic like mobs running away when they are low to call other mobs was something interesting I've seen in other games, and which I was kinda expecting in FFXIV since war has that one stationary chain move. But due to the mechanics of emnity in this game (enemies don't rowse other enemies around them unless they are already linked to them in a group) and for reasons uknown to me, i have not seen that outside of a single gimmick fight.

Gladiator has shield bash which stuns as well as doing some damage. It is used when an enemy is about to cast an AoE attack, with the orange indicator on the ground. If it's done in time and the enemy is stunnable it will be stunned and won't do that AoE attack. Only some mobs, mostly trash, can be stunned so it's usually used in between bosses in lower level dungeons, as far as I know.

Other classes have abilities that cause sleep, bind, pacify, silence. They are mostly used in PvP or on the occasion where an attack in a boss fight can be avoided with a stun or something (mostly end game).

Unfortunely PVE in this game just doesn't require much thought to be put into CC, other than tank positioning enemies.

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Originally Posted by IntrovertAnt

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This is probably because, unlike other hotbar trinity MMOs, ff14 has a much, much higher focus on positional triggers?

If every mob is just going to spin in a random direction and run, melee become useless. Actually, try being a tank or melee and just try to combo a moving target. FF14 does not do it well if you don't have perfect latency. Most of the time for myself and others, youre chasing the mob, hammering your weaponskill, but it gets cancelled because the mob is "too far away" despite you physically being inside it's hitbox.

I'm quite glad mobs don't run. it's an annoyance, not engaging.

You bring up specifically Holmgang (the chain move). while you can view it as a bind, it actually is used differently. it's also a pull, and it's your ability that (sometimes) prevents your death. your "ult" if you will

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Originally Posted by Fluffernuff

I'm quite glad mobs don't run. it's an annoyance, not engaging.
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Mobs don't have to run everytime. Don't assume that. Also, what you view as an annoyance, others view as a challege to be creatively delt with and adds variety to mob encounters.

I guess the point I'm trying to put out there is that so far, group role dynamic in dungeons in FFXI seems static and not dynamic from dungeon to dungeon.

The majority of reaponsubility falling on tanks to position and reposition. With cc, some of that responsibility could get put on dps instead of them just doing dps.

*shrugs*. Having more things happening during a fight that more party members have to be on top of seems more interesting to me.