Early Regen Spams In All Grades of Content

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Originally Posted by TaleraRistain

You're the first one I've seen with this opinion. I mentioned this in the healer pet peeve thread because in all the time I've played a healer in this game, it's been very common in trials for the whm to cast Medica II right before the pull and scatter.

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I wouldn't precast Medica II, usually only the tank takes damage during the first 30 seconds, and it pulls a lot of hate so I would advice against it. Tanks should be able to handle the hate, but it's just pointless overhealing in your bank. I always Divine Seal Regen couple of seconds before the pull though so I'm free to land my first nuke on tank's first hit and freely DPS until mechanics start happening.

There are times when an early regen makes no real difference, but it's still a completely avoidable potential complication. Forcing a tank to fight for hate while trying to round up mobs is especially rude, even if they need to make only minor adjustments to compensate.

If the tank needs healing that badly, all three healers have emergency tools for that. Applying a lazy regen before the tank has secured aggro just risks making pulls sloppy if the tank happens to miss anything and has to chase it down or even try to reposition a whole pack because of an errant ranged mob that stuck to the healer instead of following the tank.

I get that is an issue, but it's to enable you to dps faster as a healer.
By no means should you cast regens before a pull, but as they tank pulls the boss it should be safe to start casting. By the time it's out, the tank should have secured aggro.

It's probably happening more often for two reasons:

With the AST buffs, WHM possibly feel they have to DPS more to make up for the lack of utility.

AST has a permanent aggro dump on them that makes it easier to pre regen and get to dps faster.

While the actual tick of Medica2 isnt so bad, a lot of healers got comfortable having it mid cast when the tank pulls, and the actual heal + the regens draw hate (even more so in bosses u cant target, who JUSt spawned, but your ticks are going off. like A8, when the final form appears, gains threat, but cant be targeted yet. Usually have to tell tanks ot start off with an AoE, because voke/combo, or ranged isnt enough to build enough threat.

Also to note, heals have a hidden -enmity attached to them.
Dont know what it currently is, I know in 2.0 release it was like -90% enmity, or something extreme, a single flash (which was garbage threat back then) w/o tank stance, held hate from 10+ cures, dont know how many cures, as the mobs died before the healer gained hate.
They have raised it, but I think its something like -20% enmity on cures.
But regens have always had full enmity on them. So per HP healed, they do generate more threat.

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Originally Posted by Claire_Pendragon

They have raised it, but I think its something like -20% enmity on cures.
But regens have always had full enmity on them. So per HP healed, they do generate more threat.

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but:

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All healing done has a 0.5x multiplier, including area of effect heals and heal over time effects.

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https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/wiki/enmity

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Originally Posted by Tint

but:

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All healing done has a 0.5x multiplier, including area of effect heals and heal over time effects.

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https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/wiki/enmity

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Ah, well then they lowered it from the last time I checked in 2.1
My mistake.

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Originally Posted by Kitfox

Early Regen makes no difference in encouters with one target, or multiple that are picked on the same moment. Tank will be able to handle the small HoT enmity with their initial hate grab..

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Actually it does make a difference, it's an inconvenience to the tank and you'll probably find the boss spinning toward the healer, screwing every non ranged's opener, probably cleaving the party. This opinion that it doesn't matter is a novice one. Med2 pre pull is bad, not only because of the unnecessary enmity, but you're putting up an aoe hot on a party that still has stoneskin up...

Kitfox is right, any tank can take over regen threat before pulls as long as they pull with a good threat opener. You get the weaker tanks that just do a ranged attack on a mob causing them to spend another GCD to spin around like they mentioned. But really if it's a pack of mobs they should just get in the middle and use their biggest AoE threat and it's theirs. PLD has Scorns, WAR can OP in the cone, and DRK has Unleash. DRK has the best AoE threat with A.Drain since we can spit that AoE without being in the center. Just like healers, we tanks also have non-ideal scenarios to cover for. Doesn't mean we like it though.

In reality, I just click off the extra regen. But obviously best to avoid AoE regen whenever possible, and the ones that do Medica II before a pull really need to wake up and play their job right.

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Originally Posted by technole

snip.

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What I imagine that Chii is referring to is the fact that there's always the off-chance that the regen's server tick happens in that tiny moment before the tank's AoE threat ability registers, causing at least a few mobs to spin as they rapidly swap targets.

This isn't disastrous, of course, but it's inconvenient and completely unnecessary, especially if the mob's action upon acquiring a new target is to stand still and cast an ability while the poor tank is trying to herd cats :P

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Originally Posted by technole

Kitfox is right though, any tank can take over regen threat before pulls as long as they pull with a good threat opener. You get the weaker tanks that just do a ranged attack on a mob causing them to spend another GCD to spin around like they mentioned. But really if it's a pack of mobs they should just get in the middle and use their biggest AoE threat and it's theirs. PLD has Scorns, WAR can OP in the cone, and DRK has Unleash. DRK has the best AoE threat with A.Drain since we can spit that AoE without being in the center. Just like healers, we tanks also have non-ideal scenarios to cover for. Doesn't mean we like it though.

In reality though, I just click off the extra regen. But obviously best to avoid AoE regen whenever possible, and the ones that do Medica II before a pull really need to wake up and play their job right.

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You're comparing the "Legendary Tank" to a bad healer, and saying its ok for the healer to play bad, if the tank is great.
While I agree its not the end of the world to deal with, but there is no magical opener that the "Legendary tank" can magically pull off. You only have so many abilities/options. (Just as no one actually states what they are, when they speak of these "Legendary Tanks")
You ranged pull, like you mentioned, saying its bad.
You have your threat combo, which you cant be in the middle of, ramped up to the 2nd or 3rd hit yet. So less enmity at the start, leaving room for the mob to run right past u, making ur attack miss, because the server doesnt believe ur inside the enemies hit box.
or you start with an AoE, which isnt that great of an opener. (highest threat, but not good advice to give, unless no other option works)