Paladin Suggestion!

To be honest, I think it's a GOOD idea to put stress on low level tanks. It allows them to practice building enmity while NOT seriously punishing them for failure (since the mobs are so very weak). Losing hate at low levels is a bit embarrassing, but rarely a wipe.

A Paladin that learns good hate management BEFORE Shield Oath is going to be an enmity monster once they get it.

I don't have too many threat issues as Paladin from what I've play so far.

However I have to ask, how do people feel with Shield Bash being part of the GCD? Personally I find it annoying as I usually have used some other ability just before a mob starts casting something that can be interrupted or stunned out of.

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Originally Posted by Dzian

Something I suggested a long time ago is simply swap the oaths

Level 30 unlock shield oath
Level 40 unlock sword oath

Problem solved.

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I wouldn't look so much at making adjustments to "story related job/class skills" since that might be more of an undertaking to adjust than we think, cutscenes dialogue, etc. But anything that happens whe you level nodmally might be shuffled for convenience.

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Originally Posted by Kyuuen

I don't have too many threat issues as Paladin from what I've play so far.

However I have to ask, how do people feel with Shield Bash being part of the GCD? Personally I find it annoying as I usually have used some other ability just before a mob starts casting something that can be interrupted or stunned out of.

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having it on the GCD means you cant stun on-demand. However it means you can stun multiple times in a row, multiple problem targets, and is always up to be used, even if you have to hold your GCD to use it. sometimes the stun is more important than damage. I find it to be the best stun of the 3..... as a stun. not being oGCD means they can't really use it as a DPS tool. oh well.

This is a failing in having too many classes trying to do the same function. They have to spread the abilities out so they can say, "Well X can tank like this, but not like this. However, Y can tank like THIS but....not like this...." You always wind up with a tank that's short of one thing, and heavy in something else. Small wonder what's being called for is a Warrior skill. Do this enough and we'll be like...why have the warrior? Why not have an axe-wielding (two-handed weapon), or a sword and board Paladin?

Not the first game to give the kiddies too much for Christmas. Won't be the last.

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Originally Posted by Fluffernuff

PLD doesnt fall behind in emnity vs a WAR pre-30. OP generates more emnity because it does damage on top, however, PLD can flash more often because of Riot blade. DRK is DRK... blood weapon is a thing.
30-40 is where PLD needs help. it's doable without ShO, but you really feel the difference in Haukke, Brayflox, and Qarn and ESPECIALLY in cutter's cry if youre not quite 40

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It can be done, you just have to stay on top of who is hitting what and throw in a provoke or shield lobe here and there. Sword Oath boosts damage output, so you generate more threat by virtue of that at least.

If there are AoE DDs in the party, rotate targets to spread the hate generation around.

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Originally Posted by LineageRazor

To be honest, I think it's a GOOD idea to put stress on low level tanks. It allows them to practice building enmity while NOT seriously punishing them for failure (since the mobs are so very weak). Losing hate at low levels is a bit embarrassing, but rarely a wipe.

A Paladin that learns good hate management BEFORE Shield Oath is going to be an enmity monster once they get it.

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Agreed. It teaches better situational awareness. But the main methods are weaving in provokes and shield lobs as needed, rotating targets and paying attention to what the rest of the party is doing and who they are attacking. I actually find it more enjoyable to be doing all of that because it actually feels like I'm doing something. If you can grab hate and maintain it with ease, where is the challenge? I like the challenge.

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Originally Posted by Fluffernuff

having it on the GCD means you cant stun on-demand. However it means you can stun multiple times in a row, multiple problem targets, and is always up to be used, even if you have to hold your GCD to use it. sometimes the stun is more important than damage. I find it to be the best stun of the 3..... as a stun. not being oGCD means they can't really use it as a DPS tool. oh well.

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That's a fair point. I was gonna point out that DRK's Low Blow always seemed to be available; double checked on Low Blow (started out with DRK as my first ever tank and it's been a WHILE... still ilvl 180), and didn't notice the Additional effect on it has a 30% reset.

But as you pointed out, best to keep some differences to differentiate between tanking styles of the classes.

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Originally Posted by Kosmos992k

It can be done, you just have to stay on top of who is hitting what and throw in a provoke or shield lobe here and there. Sword Oath boosts damage output, so you generate more threat by virtue of that at least.

If there are AoE DDs in the party, rotate targets to spread the hate generation around.

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Well you're not wrong, I already said it was DOABLE 30-40. its not impossible. However there's a massive difference between PLD emnity and WAR/DRK emnity level 30-40 due to the lack of emnity granted from Shield Oath.
It's also a little better to dump flashes for AoE. due to RoH combo being, well, on a combo, rotating your combo will only let you really hold onto 3 targets. it's best to flash a few times and then use your combo to focus on the enemies dying quickest/the ones taking the most emnity from the DPS.

Also, just to clarify to OP or any new PLD that come across this. Sword Oath does an additional 75 potency every auto-attack. its not a % increase in damage. However, that extra potency every ~2sec is extra damage done and thus increases emnity by that extra damage dealt, since damage=emnity.

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Originally Posted by Kyuuen

That's a fair point. I was gonna point out that DRK's Low Blow always seemed to be available; double checked on Low Blow (started out with DRK as my first ever tank and it's been a WHILE... still ilvl 180), and didn't notice the Additional effect on it has a 30% reset.

But as you pointed out, best to keep some differences to differentiate between tanking styles of the classes.

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I did not forget low blow, but as you discovered, its only a 30% chance to reset IF you parry. I would hardly call a % of a % to be "reliable". If only low blow reset 100% off a parry and DRK had a parry version of Sheltron, eh? Low Blow is still a little better than Brutal Swing though, IMO.

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Originally Posted by Fluffernuff

Well you're not wrong, I already said it was DOABLE 30-40. its not impossible. However there's a massive difference between PLD emnity and WAR/DRK emnity level 30-40 due to the lack of emnity granted from Shield Oath.
It's also a little better to dump flashes for AoE. due to RoH combo being, well, on a combo, rotating your combo will only let you really hold onto 3 targets. it's best to flash a few times and then use your combo to focus on the enemies dying quickest/the ones taking the most emnity from the DPS.

Also, just to clarify to OP or any new PLD that come across this. Sword Oath does an additional 75 potency every auto-attack. its not a % increase in damage. However, that extra potency every ~2sec is extra damage done and thus increases emnity by that extra damage dealt, since damage=emnity.

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Absolutely, my apologies, I wasn't meaning to contradict you, but unfortunately that's how it sounds when I read my post back to myself. I definitely recognize it's harder than it is for WAR/DRK. That said, I think that the extra effort and thought that get's put in in order to manage aggro in that 30-40 gap for Paladin makes you a better tank. I agree about the role of flash. Flash is a skill that is easy to forget mid-fight, but it's really important. I should probably havd added a line of advice to my earlier post;

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...and Flash your butt off...

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What you say about watching which enemies are dying fastest and focusing aggro there since you're more likely to lose it there is really good advice.

I do something similar on Scholar when sprinkling in my DoTs, many times I need to throw a heal at the tank in the middle of setting the DoTs to be spread. So I target one of the mobs which has taken less damage than the one the tank is focusing on, set the DoTs and spread them. If everyone is following the tank's lead, the primary target may die before I can spread the Dots, wasting the time and MP. I think that the awareness to monitor the targets like that came from working hard as a Paladin during the dark times when almost anything could out damage and out aggro a Paladin who was not on top of things - especially without Shield Oath.