Let's Discuss: Weekly Limits

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Originally Posted by Averax

I hate the grind. I wish there were more effective means of capping. Doing the same two dungeons over and over for months gets really old really fast, and then you hate them forever after that. I still have nightmares about neverreap and fractal continuum.

What i want, if we're going to continue on the endless grind cycle, is alternate and viable means of capping tomes. Something, anything other than two dungeons. Don't get me wrong, the dungeons are beautiful and well put together, but i'm so tired of them.

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CoughPalaceOfTheDeadCough. Seriously, it's a pretty fun way to cap tomes and with the new floors being added I imagine going from 1-200 could potentially be enough to get you to like 3/4 or even capped tomestones.

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Originally Posted by RobbieH

How so? The weekly tome limit is a cheap attempt at not making more end game content, so they lock us into 450 tomes per week so we can't grind, even if we get pieces from Savage we're still limited there, along with the Tomestone gear that's needed for BiS.

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He means that you'd be doing the exact same thing anyway, and likely complain about how watered down the experience is because you're doing the same old same old. Burn out is real, especially with the ignorance that plagues most teens and adults these days.

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Originally Posted by RobbieH

I guess you never played an Horizontal progression game then.

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Horizontal progression is often plagued by RNG gods, significantly more than it is here. I have a feeling that most players are not willing to go back to it or experience that at all. They're also often centered around some means to spawn or play the long waiting game to get a chance at that gear (waiting for mob spawn following ToD or waiting for raid reset).

Also keep in mind that this game is not tailored to horizontal progression, so that statement you replied to about the tomes is actually applicable. It's about what is, rather than what could be.

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Originally Posted by RobbieH

How so? The weekly tome limit is a cheap attempt at not making more end game content, so they lock us into 450 tomes per week so we can't grind, even if we get pieces from Savage we're still limited there, along with the Tomestone gear that's needed for BiS.

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Removing the weekly tome limit isn't magically going to have them make more end game content, it just means the end game content will be scaled to a higher iLvl, since it'll be easier to reach that iLvl.
Also, XIV doesn't really have horizontal progression, so I'm not sure how your last sentence is related.

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Originally Posted by Kaurie

I would prefer a great many things:.

1. Tomestones are not the only one avenue to obtain gear - gear drops come from mobs, quests, chests that all have a chance at giving you something relevant for your ilvl

2. Tomestones are not capped on earning, but are rather capped on spending per job. For example, you can spend 450 scripture tomestones on SMN this week, and another 450 on SCH if you so choose - and you can gain as much as you like.

3. Weekly limits have roll overs, for example, if I miss a week, I can catch up on my missed cap the following week and not be behind the rest of my raid team

4. Distribution of Tomestones be spread out a little better. Currently, nothing gives nearly anything the same as expert - this encourages one to run expert only and the 2 new dungeons become boring quite quickly. Xelphatol? Takes 15 minutes (give or take) and you get 50 tomestones vs A12N which takes 10 minutes and gives you 10.

5. Explore the option of making tomestones trade-able, if a cap is put on spending, this would not give anyone an unfair advantage. However, it may open up more possibilities to obtain tomestones. It also could help address the issue, where if someone is away for some reason, they can have a friend get them and trade them over. It also could potentially add to the economy.

In the end, though, I'd rather they just scrap tomestones and replicate WoW's itemization and reward structure.

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1. They'd have to be very careful about the chances of getting gear from those sources, as I'm sure they don't want people to fully gear up in a week.
2. This sounds okay, but I think it'd be better if it were tied to roles instead of jobs. Each role (tank/healer/dps) having their own 450 tomestones weekly cap.
3. This sounds reasonable, as I have a few friends who sometimes have to rush things if they end up having to be away for a few days.
4. This probably wouldn't be as much of an issue if expert roulette had more than two dungeons. Also something that'd require careful balancing
5. I think this would be a bad idea, as you'd get this mentality that players should start running with multiple alts so they can trade tomestones over to their main to gear up really fast. And the super rich being able to get everything on week 1.

If by WoW's itemization/reward structure, you mean the current one in Legion, I'd rather they'd avoid that. I wouldn't find it fun to have RNG stacked on RNG stacked on RNG (Does it have the right stats? Is it warforged/titanforged? Does it have a gem socket?)

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Originally Posted by Nezerius

1. They'd have to be very careful about the chances of getting gear from those sources, as I'm sure they don't want people to fully gear up in a week.
2. This sounds okay, but I think it'd be better if it were tied to roles instead of jobs. Each role (tank/healer/dps) having their own 450 tomestones weekly cap.
3. This sounds reasonable, as I have a few friends who sometimes have to rush things if they end up having to be away for a few days.
4. This probably wouldn't be as much of an issue if expert roulette had more than two dungeons. Also something that'd require careful balancing
5. I think this would be a bad idea, as you'd get this mentality that players should start running with multiple alts so they can trade tomestones over to their main to gear up really fast. And the super rich being able to get everything on week 1.

If by WoW's itemization/reward structure, you mean the current one in Legion, I'd rather they'd avoid that. I wouldn't find it fun to have RNG stacked on RNG stacked on RNG (Does it have the right stats? Is it warforged/titanforged? Does it have a gem socket?)

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1. possible, this is how WoW does it and you don't gear to max in a week.
2. Roles would work, it depends on the tomes of that patch (i.e. if healers are all sharing, yes roles, if healers are not sharing then no not)
5. You would not be able to gear up fast, due to the cap on spending. You can still only gear up at the same speed.

yes, I meant WoW's Legion system. I had a heck of a lot more fun gearing up in Legion than I have ever had in FFXIV. To elaborate, gearing in FFXIV feels like a chore that I need to do in order to raid. In Legion, it feels like gearing is the reason why I am doing anything. I enjoy gearing there, so that's why I do the content. I hate gearing here, but it's necessary to do the content that I enjoy.

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Originally Posted by SessionZero

how are they going to be any more motivated to do so if they can achieve a full set of 260 even faster?

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I guess you never played an Horizontal progression game then.

I've played GW2 for 2 Years and pretty much the best gear you got at the first months was pretty much still the best 2 Years later, almost no one had issues with it.

Meanwhile in FFXIV:

- 2 Months later after new Raid: full BiS
- 4 Months later useless BiS gear
- Repeat

There should be more End-game Raids, the weekly tome is a cheap attempt and not making more Raids.

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Originally Posted by RobbieH

How so? The weekly tome limit is a cheap attempt at not making more end game content

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Lifting it is not going to magically give them the resources to develop more content per patch. that's a cause and effect not based in reality.

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Originally Posted by RobbieH

I guess you never played an Horizontal progression game then.

I've played GW2 for 2 Years and pretty much the best gear you got at the first months was pretty much still the best 2 Years later, almost no one had issues with it.

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A lot of people had issues with it. It's the major reason that people say there is no endgame content and barely anything to do. I got bored of this style pretty quickly, and is why I came to FFXIV. That isn't to say I think FFXIV's system is good though (see above), it's just better than GW2.

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Originally Posted by Welsper59

Horizontal progression is often plagued by RNG gods, significantly more than it is here.

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Depends on the game, but generally speaking yes there's more RNG for a simple reasons: gear sets.

If people don't like grind then they don't like horizontal progression at all, but let's be honest, a lot of people complain they don't like to grind, yet i see those people grinding the relic and events like Yokai.

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Originally Posted by SendohJin

Lifting it is not going to magically give them the resources to develop more content per patch. that's a cause and effect not based in reality.

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They got a much bigger budget this time than they did with HW, can't wait to see more of the same. (^^,)

I like the weekly caps. I have (achievable) goals each week, things to do and I get a bit more powerful each week.

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Originally Posted by RobbieH

I guess you never played an Horizontal progression game then.

I've played GW2 for 2 Years and pretty much the best gear you got at the first months was pretty much still the best 2 Years later, almost no one had issues with it.

Meanwhile in FFXIV:

- 2 Months later after new Raid: full BiS
- 4 Months later useless BiS gear
- Repeat

There should be more End-game Raids, the weekly tome is a cheap attempt and not making more Raids.

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I played GW2 from release until probably mid to late 2014 consistently and then on and off for another year. The game had no endgame content to speak of outside of Fractals (arguably) and PvP. There were many other myriad issues plaguing the gearing system of that game, and in the end they ended up introducing vertical progression of their own with Ascended, etc gear.

I agree that something needs to be done with the tomestone system, but I think you're missing the forest for the trees by focusing on the weekly caps.