In 4man stuff DRK is pretty amazing to heal as long as they're played well. Being able to sprint, then at the end of the pull pop CD + BP, put down SE, and spam Abyssal x inf. You can even do stuff like DA Dark Dance after BP to keep the mitigation going, as well as apply Reprisal to hard hitting mobs (since it's oGCD and won't cost you any uptime).
However...
When a DRK is bad they become pretty paper thin. Especially at lower levels where DRK doesn't have most of it's toolkit they're basically a PLD minus it's shield. These are the ones that are simply a pain to heal and the ones that generally give healers the idea that DRK in a 4man = bad times ahead.
Why I love Dark Knight...
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10-23-2016, 08:34 PMSpookyGhost
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10-23-2016, 08:42 PMCookieMonstaThats cuz DRK is actually the least intuitive and most active Tank class. Even achieving and maintaining basic durability is a challenge that requires some in-depth class know how (see Darkside and Grit), most of their skills are not so simple as popping rampart and AFK. This low skill floor is the reason the majority of DF DRK are terrible.Quote:
Originally Posted by myahele
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10-23-2016, 08:47 PMAlistaireAll of that is for the healer to manage, not for the tank to slow down the run by casting it on themselves thinking they're helping. So my point stands. For a scholar all stoneskin between pulls is going to do is make the fairy's first embrace go later when I'm not controlling it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Supersun
...and none of that means I don't use it (I do) but it's not necessary and certainly not a thing for the tank to stop to do. -
10-23-2016, 11:15 PMAhrniel
Dark Knights at least have a very solid AoE tanking unlike Paladins and Warriors. Paladins are just bad and Warriors have Cone AoE attack, I've seen many people miss a few mobs constantly because of it. I have to admit I feel better when there is a Dark Knight as tank than any other tank, they are more reliable in their role. They do take damage, but that is something healers should be glad that happens, because honestly, a well geared Paladin just makes you want to leave the dungeon, there is nothing to heal there.
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10-23-2016, 11:29 PMADVSSits because they virtually have no self healing, and deiinately no on demand burst heal comparable to equilibrium.clemency. Even their oh shit button will kill them without being babied by a healer, which is at least one of my complaints about the tank "balance" in regards to it, whilst other drk feel the job is so perfect, to adjust any little thing about it is heresy imo as a tank its too reliant on healers and outside sources to even do a marginally acceptable job that the other two can do as well if not betterQuote:
Originally Posted by Kamui_Argent
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10-23-2016, 11:38 PMRawrz
I loooove annoying berserk macros. Can't always see when they pop berserk on the party list and I usually have my volume down, so I won't hear it. Fey Caress and the Wardens Paean say hello. :] <3
Reason I dislike DRK as an SCH:
Living Dead is not worth allowing to happen. It is more worth my time to keep you alive than to let it proc. It's a complete DPS loss, since it will take me multiple Aetherflows and GCDS just to let you live. I see holmgang and Ill let you drop. A precasted embrace and a lustrate is all you need. Smart Wars will self heal as well as it ends. -
10-24-2016, 01:00 AMClaire_PendragonIt only procs if they die.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rawrz
I can then only assume if u mean they rely soley on it, while having CDs to spare.
If there is an "oh sh*t" situation I wasnt expecting, I will try to slap CDs before it, in an attempt to survive, but if I die with both a CD and living dead up, then the prior statement doesnt apply.
If I am out of potent CDs for tank busters (usually when the OT dies too often, like in Sophia EX, and I eat every single tank buster, or reprisal refuses to proc, leaving me short on CDs sooner than expected) then Living dead becomes my CD (which I try to pair with Blood Bath if it's up, along with soul eater, regardless if I'm unable to spare more MP for more DA+SE, and maybe even healing potions)
The only time living dead is really bad, is for 4 man content dungeons, when u mass pull, as living dead isnt good as a means to ignore dmg. (As you're supposed to cut down how much healers need to heal you with those sort of pulls, not increase it.) But in EX/Savage bosses, it's understandable that stuff happens that you couldnt have prevented yourself.
I would like them, if they ONLY said "3 seconds till pacification" and did NOT say anything else, nor use <se.#> (Same with raise macros with a lot of extra text and the annoying sound effect.) as that extra stuff is too distracting in Savage content, or even easier content, when new, and you're on "hyper aware" mode, trying to learn the fight.Quote:
WAR zerk macro
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10-24-2016, 09:09 AMIlan
Some comments are weird. As long as a player can play the tank class they are the same to heal. And a DRK deals not that so much less dps than a WAR if played right. Your issues with DRK are just that you find the average bad DF players who are not able to play a DRK right and of course you will say that a PLD is easier to heal since he is so easy that you can play this class while sleeping...
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10-24-2016, 09:04 PMFluffernuff
ehhh... DRK is only squishy if they dont really utilize their abilities. A pld that never uses sheltron or rampart is gonna feel paper-thin and a WAR without vengeance or RI is probably gonna roll over without a band-aid.
on trash pulls, DRK has by far the best mitigation of all 3 tanks- every 60s. meaning every single pull. AoE blind+evasion is certainly a thing. a DRK allowing for Holy and then pulling that out of their hat? congrats. you havent needed to heal. at all. until the boss. On top of that, they still have their shadowskin and shadow wall (ALMOST copy-paste from the almighty pld). Bosses is where you kinda get that whole "hierarchy" but since bosses are just mechanics+autos, it's... not really much to compare. no tanks should be 1-shot outside of.... mechanics.
Actually, of the 3, just mitigation-wise, WAR is the weakest of the 3. they have strong tools, just not as many of them. But its further offset by the fact their tank stance doesnt actually reduce incoming damage.
Main reason why DRK can't "solo" most content compared to PLD or WAR and the reason why WAR CAN is.... sustain. You see, WAR can heal itself. Alot. and quickly. without draining any resources. Pld can too, and on top of that, it has 10s of invincibility. DRK has access to a single leech (well 2, but it's AoE and weaker). a leech weakened by it being tied to -20% damage done. a leech that costs roughly ~1/3rd of their total mana and cannot be spammed. Seriously... its a 2-3k heal every 7.5 seconds.....5 times at best
DRK can reduce ALOT of damage, but it simply has no tools to restore what slips through. I would hardly call that "squishy" though.
Seriously, in terms of incoming damage, all 3 tanks are on even ground... it's like we all have 3 different tank armors and they all have different stats and WAR somehow has more stats just because they have the best self-healing...even though they actually take more damage...
Now, if we're tanking RAIDS, well... I'm no raider, but I have to stand back and pause... Surely there's a reason DRK is firmly in a MAIN tank position. I highly doubt a tank unable to take enough punishment would be thrown in the line of fire... -
10-25-2016, 06:19 PMFernosaurThis is wrong in many, many levels, particularly if we are talking about 4-man dungeons, and SPECIALLY trash pulls. Dark Arts + Abyssal Drain + Blood Price makes DRK literally unkillable for the duration of those CDs, and not only does that heal them for amounts that increase when there are more enemies, it also deals a lot of damage and keeps their MP up. A good DRK is very, very easy to heal through trash. This applies to all three tanks, though, particularly on Scholar. A good WAR will do a similar combo with Equilibrium, Decimate, Overpower and Bloodbath, and PLD can literally solo tank+heal almost every pull in the game, letting the healers DPS through everything regardless of what class they are.Quote:
Originally Posted by ADVSS
DRK is pretty well balanced right now if you ask me. I'd even say on the slightly weaker side of the raid tanking scales. It very hardly depends on your healers' abilities to DPS, and the fight you're going into.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fluffernuff
4/5ths of the new content has physical heavy-hitting attacks, so DRK can find themselves on the weaker side of the defensive spectrum for this tier, which can mean less healer DPS. They bring more personal DPS to the table and also Reprisal, but PLD's capability to tank physical stuff and the fact that Rage of Halone reduces Str and can have 100% uptime (which would be a DPS loss for the Paladin but perhaps a DPS gain for the healers) make DRK, imho, the weakest of the three tanks for the current raid tier, though not in a level where it has too much impact on the meta anyways.
I personally prefer healing PLDs, but I don't care if it's a DRK instead.
...Unless I'm solo healing a hard 8-man on SCH, because Living Dead causes me more troubles than it saves -_-