Roles for Samurai, Red Mage, Dancer

Samuai DPS
Red Mage tank
Dancer healer

I'm not sure why people still think that having another tank class is going to fix the shortage of tanks. People don't tank because it's the most demanding role (except maybe healers) and requires the most attention while playing. People get nervous queuing with them. SE could add 3 more tank classes and no dps/healer classes and it still wouldn't change the shortage issue.

There's no shortage of tanks problem to begin with.

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Envoyé par TheMunimai

I'd quite like Dancer to be a "frontline" healer - utilising TP - they could have traits which increase their TP generation and it would make for a slightly different kind of healer.

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That's difficult considering certain mechanics, though not entirely impossible to solve... They'd just need to adjust the Duty Finder such that every 8 man party gets at least 2 ranged based Jobs, and mechanics like Judgement Nisi target ranged Jobs, rather than healers...

That said, I'd go for making Dancer a ranged based healer... Final Fantasy XI gave the Job a War Hoop as its first "artifact" weapon, though Relics and Mythics later went for daggers... Still, giving it a throwing weapon for ranged physical attacks, and dances for "spell" heals works nicely IMO...

As for Red Mage and Samurai... Both DPS... I guess either could be a counter-based tank, but I think fitting a tank role onto a Job ends up limiting what you can do with it mechanically, you've got to many "required" skills to fit in... Blue Mage makes the best of this IMO, it very much fits the counter-based tank role, and classic Blue Magic spells kinda fit in with the skills a tank is going to need... Blue Mage can have a Clemency/Divine Veil style skill in White Wind, it can have defensive spells that are classic Blue Magic spells... It works with that role perfectly IMO, while Red Mage and Samurai? Every concept I've come up with for the Jobs would have to be butchered to fit enmity combos and defensive skills in, so no thanks.

Tanks are very much the jack-of-all-trades in this game though, so if you forced me to put one on tank, I guess I'd have to go with Red Mage... Tanks can deal damage, they can take hits, they can all also heal fairly well, even if it's just themselves typically... That's exactly why I'd stick Blue Mage on that role though, Blue Magic had a range of useful spells that can cover all those uses, thus its perfect for a tank IMO... Same is true for Red Mage though, just I'd personally rather see a frontline DPS that fences and weaves spells into its combos...

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Envoyé par AutoWhit

People don't tank because it's the most demanding role (except maybe healers) and requires the most attention while playing.

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I don't know if tanks require the most attention while playing. While some jobs definitely require less attention than tank, effective support on various roles all require additional attention. Healers, played properly, require quite a bit of attention. BRD, MCH, and SMN should all be paying attention to the entire party's state. Other DPS also have support functions that can be best optimized during certain parts of a fight or at certain times. And all roles should be paying attention and managing aggro and watching for new mobs entering.

That said, I find that I don't like being the pace setter for things and so that's what limits my interest in tanking. I don't like being pseudo "in charge."

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Envoyé par Evangela

I'd rather wait a little longer so I can play DPS Samurai. Yoshi-P promised that it's gonna be a DPS. If it's a tank, I'll stay in offensive stance and play like a DPS and I don't care if the party will complain.

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This is why we can't have nice things? :-p

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Envoyé par Evangela

There's no shortage of tanks problem to begin with.

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Except for the fact that the "Role in Need" is 95% of time Tanks. Tanks also have "instant queues". That indicates that there probably aren't enough people playing Tanks and Healers, at least in Duty Finder. Now the actual role distribution among characters is a bit better (19% Tank, 19% Healer, 62% DPS according to the official 2015 census here: http://www.finalfantasyxiv.com/Eorze...N_Census_L.PNG), but in an ideal world it would be closer to 25% Tank, 25% Healer, 50% DPS. Note that this isn't really surprising. In pretty much any "Holy Trinity" based MMO there is always a surplus of DPS players and a shortage of Healers and Tanks. There are multiple theories as to why (Added "responsiblity" when playing a tank or healer, more "cool" class options as DPS, "Damage is fun") but it's very rare to find a Trinity MMO where Healers/Tanks are more popular than DPS roles.

When Ninja was first added, DF queue times dramatically increased as many players who would normally play Tanks or Healers flocked over to the new DPS job. I can't imagine if the expansion were to add two, let alone three new DPS jobs. That's why I'm guessing it'll be "Tank, DPS, Healer" for this expansion. It keeps the roles balanced and should lessen the effect on queue times, although they will still be affected, especially if a more "desirable" class is the DPS.

For the question above, I could see it going more or less anyway. I'd lean toward "Samurai = DPS, Red Mage = Tank, Dancer = Healer". but I'm not really sure.

I feel like Samurai would work best as either a Tank or DPS. As a tank, they'd likely focus on a "counter" mechanic, similar to the "Swordmaster" class in Bravely Default. As a DPS, I could see them having stances, focusing on either quicker strikes or slower "casting-like" strikes (iaijutsu). As a DPS they could have the added benefit of sharing equipment with Dragoons, which would be pretty nice. I could easily see them going either way.

For Red Mage, they could technically fit all three. Red Mage is going to be tough to fit in this game, if only because they are defined by being "Jack of All Trades, Master of None". The Red Mage will see quite a bit of change, and depending on what they decide to emphasize it will change. As a Tank, they could easily have a number of defensive abilities, support abilities, and offensive abilities (not unlike Paladin), while still fighting in melee. It might make a great fit. However, it would likely need heavier armor, which might not work as well. As DPS it could probably still do all three as well. Healer I see being a bit harder, if only since it's supposed to be melee, but it could fit. I think Red Mage is a pretty good bet for the expansion though. The two major Ala-Mihgan characters we've seen have both combined swordplay with fire magic (Ilberd and Raubahn), I'm just not sure what role they'll fill.

Dancer I could easily see as a Healer, or a DPS. As a DPS they could easily fit the "melee bard" kind of role, with support focused dances and quick melee strikes. As a Healer, they could focus on party wide support abilities, although I'm not sure how they would handle "melee" healing. Tank fits some of their aspects thematically (attracting attention), but I feel like would be a bad fit. Either they would have to wear heavy armor, or they would have to be an "Evasion" tank, and to be frank I don't see that happening. "Evasion Tanks" are notoriously hard to balance correctly, as they usually end up either too weak or wildly overpowered. So, I don't realistically see "Dancer" as becoming a tank, though healer or DPS could work.

Samurai being a tank seems like the obvious choice - but I kinda hope it doesn't happen. Samurai will probably use a katana or great katana, and that would make for THREE out of four tanks wielding swords... It'd be nice to have a sword-wielding DPS for a change. Of course, they could get fancy and give SAM a Naginata, or even a bow...

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Envoyé par AutoWhit

I'm not sure why people still think that having another tank class is going to fix the shortage of tanks.

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It DOES help, some. There was a notable increase in the number of tanks when DRK came out, and that was largely attributable to the fact that folks wanted to play Dark Knight, even if they had to tank to do it. If the job is cool or iconic enough, a lot of people will get over their hangups about tanks and play it anyway.

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Envoyé par Evangela

There's no shortage of tanks problem to begin with.

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I can't imagine you saying this with a straight face. The shortage of tanks is beyond easy to prove. Queue up Duty Finder as Tank, Healer, and DPS. Which one gets in immediately? Which one has to wait longest? Tanks get their instant queues for a reason; there are many healers and many many DPS looking for parties, but not nearly as many tanks. So as soon as one queues, they're instantly matched with the DPS and healers that are waiting.

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Envoyé par Claymore65

That indicates that there probably aren't enough people playing Tanks and Healers, at least in Duty Finder.

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In DF is the big qualifier. Holy crap the sheer number of tanks I see roaming the open world. Joining a hunt party comes with a fair chance at the party being 50 - 75% tanks. Sometimes healers are still scarce in the open world, but they also have times in which they show up in large groups.

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Envoyé par aesteval

In DF is the big qualifier. Holy crap the sheer number of tanks I see roaming the open world. Joining a hunt party comes with a fair chance at the party being 50 - 75% tanks. Sometimes healers are still scarce in the open world, but they also have times in which they show up in large groups.

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yep. only enter trials as tank these days, the role just doesnt feel so rewarding to play like it did in 3.0

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Envoyé par aesteval

In DF is the big qualifier. Holy crap the sheer number of tanks I see roaming the open world. Joining a hunt party comes with a fair chance at the party being 50 - 75% tanks. Sometimes healers are still scarce in the open world, but they also have times in which they show up in large groups.

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That's a fair point, although Hunt Parties are kind of an exception. Since participation is based off of Aggro generated, a disproportionately large amount of players end up as Tanks, since they can more easily get credit.

However, class distribution is arguably most important in Duty Finder. That's where roles matter most, as queue times affect the vast majority of players. Being a "Tank" doesn't really matter much in the open world, however once you enter DF it allows players to complete dungeons. PotD was literally designed so it could be ran without a tank, to reduce queue times. Perhaps the issue is that "Tanks" aren't entering Duty Finder, where they are most needed.

According to the 2015 official census (http://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodest...e8ff1bcf34c5ae), approximately 19% of players are Tanks, with 19% being Healers and 62% playing DPS. That's not too bad, although an ideal percentage would be 25% Tank, 25% Healer, and 50% DPS. I'd love to see some statistics for Duty Finder in particular. It would be interesting to see.