Should I Kick before being Kicked?

You need to check yourself first if this thing is happening to you on such a consistent basis that you need to actually create a thread about it. I have been playing this game since beta v1 and although you do run into annoying or aggressive players or those who want things done one way only, that is usually the oddity. I tend to have fun in my pts, chat and have a good time or ppl just stay silent.

So if this is happening to you really often, how are you approaching the situation? Are you maybe reading someone stating a strat they know, that you don't as you said you are new, and you are just being too sensitive and thinking its criticism when its just someone explaining? Esp during a fight when things are kept short cause, well, your in the middle of a fight. Or are you being the jerk of the pt and ppl are responding to you as such?

Bottom line, if you are being kicked or getting in arguments with your teammates more often then not, its likely not everybody else who is the problem...

I can get how you might be not understood as I am not fully grasping what you are trying to say.

What can I say though? I don't think I've ever been kicked in this game ever(2 past years). If you are getting kicked frequently perhaps maybe you are thinking too much into situations and micromanaging them too much? From my last 2+ years in this game, I can say that even in savage raid pugs and ex primals pugs that I rarely need to talk. If for some reason I do need to discuss strategy then it's easily kept to a few bits of information "I'll tank the ones that spawn on the right"...etc For everything else, like I believe you mentioned just random roulette content(?) I have no need to talk. if someone is doing something wrong and we still can complete the duty anyway I'll just let them do whatever they want. If they are doing something that will prevent duty completion I'll just attempt to kick them and if it doesn't go through, then I'll leave and accept penalty. It's pretty easy. I mean of course if they seem a reasonable person I'd try to talk to them instead of kicking them but we are talking roulette content. If they can't push buttons and not stand in fire... 9 times out of 10 it's because they are doing it on purpose. If I honestly believe they are just new or have a issue understanding then I'll help them naturally.

I do agree that fc's are pretty under utilized in this game as they are a glorified linkshell with a airship (if you are lucky) for the most part.

All I can say is it sounds like you are part of the Geuno FC groups... They are a buncha drama queens that like starting crap my advice is just leave before they can get off on kicking you.

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Originally Posted by Eumona

If being kicked is going to be such a certainty when voicing my view point, than shouldn't I incite a kick first?

The only other option I found reliable (but very isolative) to circumvent being kicked is to avoid speaking in chat. Of course, this can cause problems not just from a social standpoint but also from a practical one. It can be challenging to coordinate when not speaking or to defend myself when it looks like I will be kicked, despite not saying a word within missions.

So, the more informed question is: Do you believe in inciting a vote to kick (or leave a company before being kicked) to try to preserve your spot and "time" in missions?

Thank you

Side Note: In my experience in MMO's, you are considered the antagoniser if you don't yield to a players way (for better or worse).

P.S. I'm semi-new and I Tank.

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LOL dude i was in that dungeon with you. Remember what i said when we completed the dungeon? Ppl often go about things the wrong way but you can't just assume someone is being rude just for the sake of it. There's often a reason behind it. Now lets look at the situation you were in. It started by you wanting to move at your own pace while the rest of the group wanted to move much quicker between pulls. This by it's self was not an issue since our healer was capable of keeping the dps up if they were tanking the mobs. So there should have been no probs and we should have moved through the dungeon just like that the whole time and completed it and went our separate ways. One thing you need to keep in mind is that on this game, dungeons are ridiculously easy content and can be done even if someone isn't doing there job. So 99% of players go in expecting to just get it done. In this specific case it didn't matter if you tanked or not because the healer could keep the dps up while tanking. Naturally this would make you feel unneeded and so you decided to speak up and say "Can you stop running ahead of me?" to which i replied "then move faster" and you said "ok fine you tank then". After this point I noticed you just sitting there while we killed the frog but then i'd assume once you realized that wee weren't having any issues you decided to try and tank again. But at this point it was already too late, everyone in the instance had already gained a negative opinion of you. After that the healer constantly let you die even when you tried to keep up with us and tank which was bad on his part but that isn't where the problem stems from. The issue is that, when realizing you weren't meeting the expectations of everyone in the instance, you decided to make an attempt at pulling everyone down to your skill level instead of rising up to the rest of the groups skill level. We had amazing dps an our healer was competent enough to keep everyone alive regardless of who's tanking. All we needed at the point was a tank who knew how to pull big and keep aggro and we were set. Do you see where i'm going with this? Yes the ppl in that dungeon where very rude to you and i especially disagree with the fact that the healer stopped healing you when you tried to do your job but the underlying problem here is that you are refusing to better yourself. Do some research here on the forums, look up youtube guides, watch some play throughs of other tanks doing dungeons and try to learn how to play your job to the best of your ability. That is how you will overcome running into problems when doing instanced content. Now you said something about being kicked so I can only assume that you run into these issues a lot since we never tried to kick you the time i played with you but kicking someone before you are kicked is never the answer as it will often result in the dungeon not even getting done at all. How can that feel satisfying to you? Just look to improve and you find far more satisfaction. I've obviously got nothing against you, I just hope this advice will save you from getting on more players bad sides since as a tank, that is REALLY easy to do.

Edit: I just read the rest of the posts and there is some incredibly helpful advice. It all boils down to not looking to blame others and looking to see what you yourself can improve. The most obvious improvement is your skill at the game. Make it so that you don't have to say your an "inexperienced tank" on the forums. And also notice that not one person has said to give up tanking. It's a very achievable goal

Vague thread is vague.

Should I kick people before i get kicked?... uh Sure... or or... Deliberate whether they have tried to explain something constructive or if it's trolling. If it's the first, take the criticism. Reflect on it. Bring it with you next time you're in the same scenario. Discuss it in your FC or ask in PF for advice. If it was trolling, ignore it and if kicked, insta- requeue

- Edit- Just read the above post. xD

It's clear I have been misunderstood and this misunderstanding is likely not going to change (after about a year or so I am still hearing the same advice). I'll continue to figure out my problems using my own methods.

Dealing with people in the way many players proposed will likely make everyone happy but me. (i.e. there isn't much room for creativity using the methods that were proposed).

This game may be old to many but it's not to me. I'll will not be completely robbed of the quality experience players had when this game was launched; where "no one knew anything". It's no coincidence that my missions run smoother with players my own skill level given the caution they show.

I was hopeful that I would get a "new" experience by reaching out...

For now, I'll Solo Play and stick to my research.

Thanks for your participation.

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Originally Posted by Claymore022

LOL dude i was in that dungeon with you. Remember what i said when we completed the dungeon? Ppl often go about things the wrong way but you can't just assume someone is being rude just for the sake of it. There's often a reason behind it. Now lets look at the situation you were in. It started by you wanting to move at your own pace while the rest of the group wanted to move much quicker between pulls. This by it's self was not an issue since our healer was capable of keeping the dps up if they were tanking the mobs.

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Wait, I'm confused... Hopefully I'm reading this wrong, and there's more I don't know about since I wasn't there to see any of it, but I'm getting the impression here that the rest of the party tried to force the OP into moving at a faster pace than he was comfortable with, started pulling ahead of him when he didn't change his pace to meet their demands, and expected him to be okay with that? And when he reacted to it, the healer punished him by letting him die numerous times and everybody blames him 100%.

Now, I agree with most of what's been said in this thread that if a player is experiencing kicks this regularly that it's likely the player that is the problem, not the groups. There is also some good advice to OP throughout the thread. But that being said, I also wouldn't expect a tank in the situation I just described to be all unicorns and rainbows about that kind of treatment. This type of situation is one of the reasons I haven't leveled a tank class myself, and likely won't ever use DF on a tank class. People can be very harsh toward inexperienced tanks, and if the above is really how it happened then it's more validating the op's claims of victimization than disputing them.

But like I said, I could be wrong. I will note though that the OP is a level 40 warrior according to the info by his character icon, so if that's his main job then it's more than likely he is still learning.

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Originally Posted by Sakuraluna

"Snip"

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I realize I have issues with players running ahead of me. I proved this to myself when I did well in Aurum Vale yesterday. The team stayed with me and gave me time to think. Today that did not happen in Dzemael Darkhold and I did not do well.

When I don't have time to think of what I am going to do, problems happen. I am still having problems quickly targeting through Adds and I have not developed enough muscle memory yet. So yes, I need to think at this point to have a "good" chance at doing well.

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Originally Posted by Claymore022

Make it so that you don't have to say your an "inexperienced tank" on the forums.

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Just to be clear here, you are not condoning the behavior of the rest of the party, right?

Aaaaand, you are telling a level 40 tank, who had probably never tanked that particular instance before, that performing like a level 60 tank with dozens of runs of instances is expected behavior for new tanks?

Clarify as necessary, because what I read in your message boiled down to that.

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Originally Posted by DPZ2

Just to be clear here, you are not condoning the behavior of the rest of the party, right?

Aaaaand, you are telling a level 40 tank, who had probably never tanked that particular instance before, that performing like a level 60 tank with dozens of runs of instances is expected behavior for new tanks?

Clarify as necessary, because what I read in your message boiled down to that.

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Originally Posted by Claymore022

Yes the ppl in that dungeon where very rude to you and i especially disagree with the fact that the healer stopped healing you when you tried to do your job but the underlying problem here is that you are refusing to better yourself.

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No, What you're doing is focusing on one line of my post and reading it out of context. A level 40 tank won't play like a level 60, even if he's good, he doesn't have the job skills to do so. The issue was that he wanted us to go slowly behind him when it was unnecessary and refused to try to play at our pace. It's not like anyone was doing big pulls or expected big pulls, we just didn't want to sit there after every pull for a min+ for him to think about his next move. There's literally nothing to think about, all he has to do is use that same weapon skills as he did in the last pull and he would have been fine. Instead he wanted to go slow and so the other dps just started moving ahead and since the healer could keep us all up we just followed suit. He seems to run into these issues in a lot of the dungeons he does so i suggested that he just get better at the game. Look up guides and watch videos of how other tanks play and he won't have issues with other ppl who just want to get the dungeon done. If he does this then he'll learn to recognize that he's in a group that knows what they're doing and all he has to do is basically say he's new at the start of the dungeon and then just enjoy the ride. If there's something he needs to know then someone will tell him, if the group wants him to pull faster then all he's gotta do is keep going from mob to mob and the healer will make up for the rest. He will basically learn proper dungeon etiquette.

Now after reading one of his more recent posts, i can now see that he wants to enjoy the dungeons nice and slow as a new experience and sadly he won't find that in this game unless he gets 3 other ppl who are new to help him with this. The only way to truly experience a lot of this stuff as if it were new is to catch up to current content.

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Originally Posted by Sakuraluna

Wait, I'm confused... Hopefully I'm reading this wrong, and there's more I don't know about since I wasn't there to see any of it, but I'm getting the impression here that the rest of the party tried to force the OP into moving at a faster pace than he was comfortable with, started pulling ahead of him when he didn't change his pace to meet their demands, and expected him to be okay with that? And when he reacted to it, the healer punished him by letting him die numerous times and everybody blames him 100%.

...But that being said, I also wouldn't expect a tank in the situation I just described to be all unicorns and rainbows about that kind of treatment.

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Yes, that is pretty much exactly what happened other than blaming him 100%. The healer's decision was completely counterproductive. And no i wouldn't expect a tank to be comfortable with that situation either.