Fencer And Red-Mage - New Tank Class Suggestion

when did this become wow related. and bravery default and bravery second is what final fantasy 12-13-15 should of been like. instead they turned into a action-based rpg system watched no one liked. and made very poor liner-rpgs watch again no one liked.

need to learn to grasp new concepts. people cling to the old concepts of how a tank a healer or dps should be like. but cause of this there not willing try new concepts..

are you saying final fantasy 14 healing/tank hybrids don't fit here "Hello Paladin" Paladin can use cure and protect from conjurer and its not the best . its no were near as strong but it works. a black-mage can use psyheal but out all other dps classes blackmages psyheal is kinda strong at least stronger then paladins cure

your closing out idea or thought line that a tank could use not good heals to gain enmity watch in general any type healing in final fantasy 14 produces a-lot of enmity. not saying we should have tanks that can out heal the damage they take. no thats not what am saying what i am saying is lets put up 3% heal as stated before if you have 10k heal this heals for 300 only 300 mind doesn't improve it at all its just 300... now if you had 40K then its 1200,. however monsters hit you for like 3000-4000 per hit parry is like 2000-2500. in truth it acts as nothing more but damage maliganation

if your worried about pvp sense i don't what game your playing if dps like character say lancer. starts putting heavy hits your dead less then 3-5 seconds about amount dps out-put so 1200 healing lvl60 with that much hp isn't gonna stop that much damage

I don't really like this tank idea, I am sorry but I just don't. It doesn't seem like it would be a fun tank to play.

1) Your opinion on FF games is just that, an opinion. You do not speak for everyone in terms of what people like or dislike.

2) Don't even mention Paladin or BLM cross class Cure. Both of them are sub 500 (no, BLM isn't any stronger). Both are irrelevant comparisons as they are cross class skills, the jobs aren't built around them. Apples to oranges. The only fair comparison is Clemency, which can only realistically be used twice before running out of MP.

3) Your examples of 10k HP are irrelevant, everyone at this point in the end game has above 13k, more close to 20k. Also RDM wouldn't pop up until 4.0 which by that time everyone will be hovering in the 25-30k range while tanks approach 40k.

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Originally Posted by Yasuhiro

Careful you'll confuse people if you use Final Fantasy's actual spell naming conventions, need to number them.

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Cynical much? No offense, but that sort of comment clearly gives away having only played a FF game made after 1998 and then making the incorrect assumption all FF games were like that, which was not the case. The original English language versions of FFI, IV, VI and VII all used numbers to show spell potency/tiers instead of the stupid 'ra','ga','ja', 'na' system (the later only appeared as standard in the English language versions with FFVIII), which is exactly the reason why FFXIV does the same. Yes it might be now a modern tradition, but then this game has more in common with FFI and FFXI than modern FF titles like FFXIII so I digress (FFXI after all used both).

As for the OP's post, Fencer ironically was actually considered as a starting class for version 1.0 but was ultimately never added (although references to 'fencing' skill still existed in 1.0's files but were dummied out and never used). So it is definitely possible if SE does decide to continue to use 'starting class and then upgrade to Job; rather than the stupid classless 'Extra Jobs' Heavensward had, FNC is a good a class as any for RDM.

I guess if you have to make red mage a tank, make it really op tank. I dont even

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Originally Posted by Enkidoh

Cynical much?

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Yes

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No offense, but that sort of comment clearly gives away having only played a FF game made after 1998 and then making the incorrect assumption all FF games were like that, which was not the case.

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You said the exact same thing to me in another thread and I already told you in the same thread way back the numbering system was done because of space limitations with english text and VII had an awful localization. I also said that Final Fantasy V was my favorite game in the series. Wanna know why GBA got the correct translations? Better hardware and more space to get around the limiations when it came to spells. You do know that they used the spell names we know today in the original Japanese versions though right? You even said it yourself ENGLISH version, kanji don't translate to english so that's why they took the liberty of numbering them T_T

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potency/tiers instead of the stupid 'ra','ga','ja', 'na' system

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lol, don't get too upset over it. Take it to reddit.

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Originally Posted by Enkidoh

Not this again. The stupid 'ra'/'ga' suffixes on spells is actually only a recent introduction in the English translations - the earlier (as in, NES/SNEs era) FF games actually just used numerals to show different tiers of spells (even FFVII used numbers). The whole ra/ga thing in the English-language releases started with FFVIII, thus the use of numerals for spells is actually a callback to the old-school FF games and not the games from the past ten years or so. The FF series did exist before the Playstation era you know.

And before you pass judgement, FFXI used both the ra/ga suffixes and numbers (leading to convoluted and silly spell titles like 'Curaga VI'), so your argument is further invalid I'm afraid.

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Originally Posted by Yasuhiro

Considering that my favorite game in the series is V I know, lol, no need for passive aggressiveness on a internet forum and guess what, they were numbered because of space limitations on the consoles they were on NES couldn't fit as many letters in during battles and other menus, FFVII did it because of poor localization, much like this game. No excuse when the other versions of XIV manage to get spell names right.

Everyone who's a fan of this series knows this, lol.

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Seriously exact same person with the near exact same post and they never replied after being proved wrong and they still try and correct me. Just going to assume they're a drive by poster. I'll just take what they said and apply it here.

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so your argument is further invalid I'm afraid

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Being proved 'wrong'? What I said was not wrong at all Yasuhiro - it is a fact that the first four English language titles had spell name tiers listed as consecutive numbers. Regardless of the reason why Square did it that way, that is just the basic facts of the situation, no right or wrong attached to it. Michael Christopher Koji Fox responded way back on the Beta forum and explained exactly why the English version of FFXIV ARR used this older style of spell naming incidentally, so I feel I would just be repeating it.

Either way, I'm sorry if my post sounded a little harsh, but really, this argument has been dragged out long enough. I've stated my opinion and the facts as they are. Take from them what you will. Hence I'm stepping away from this argument before it blows up any further, as it seems whatever I say will just add more fuel to the fire, which is why I never 'responded' to you in that other thread either as I felt I had said what I needed to say and anything further was only fuelling the flames. (I'm sorry to the OP for this thread derailment - regular thread discussion will now continue :)).

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Originally Posted by Anienai

How many classes are?

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In most regards, to each their own role, all.

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Originally Posted by Zodathria123

Just because class becomes a tank [doesn't?] mean it butchered. dark knights are awesome now. much better then they were in 11 have accept this. they never be a hybrid jobs in final fantasy 14 if they do not fulfill a primary role, tank, dps or healer then highly unlikely they never be added in final fantasy. i would be perfect happy with red-mage being a tank. then not have red-mage at all in 14

thing is has nothing to do with "I hate this red-mage idea" its more likely "I hate tanking only want to dps/healer hybrid overpowered character" type ppl

sorry we have grow up and stop being final fantasy fanboys and girls. and release times are changing so does the jobs. if we want a red-mage to be in 14 then it has to be a tank

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By that logic, it'd also need 4 percentile mitigation cooldowns, 3 3-step combos, and plate armor. Do we really want to use precedent as the LIMITS of what can done when one of the leading complaints for the game is homogeneity and stale gameplay.

(I realize you're hybrid-ish tank is already addressing many of those concerns, but I don't see why you would draw the line precisely there, rather than even considering what can be done to make the trinity system itself more flexible, allowing for less flattened job identity.)

On topic:

Your numbers, percentiles, effects, and/or durations on most skills seem a bit ridiculous.
A tank who can cancel party enmity?
A sprint stance?
A 12-second silence?
A 30-second paralyze?
An 80-yalm AoE?

Your spell systems also provide virtually no indirect synergy. You AoE with water, and do not use it otherwise unless you absolutely need that 200-potency per-PM heal over 12 seconds.
A split 600-potency that always does 100 potency per enemy is simply a 100-potency AoE with a cap of 6 targets (much like how the old Bane was capped at 4).
Your heals and DoTs (Dia) both seem to serve the same main function (unless Dia's DoT component is powerful) -- enmity. How much do we need?
Not sure why a spell that's been iconic to a singular effect since early D&D is being given a uniquely different effect here. "Blink" as a 1-time shield (charge reset on parry)?

Would like to see the cooldown and any damage caps on Phalanx.
Would like to know the tick potency and duration on Dia.

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Originally Posted by Enkidoh

Being proved 'wrong'? What I said was not wrong at all Yasuhiro - it is a fact that the first four English language titles had spell name tiers listed as consecutive numbers. Regardless of the reason why Square did it that way, that is just the basic facts of the situation, no right or wrong attached to it. Michael Christopher Koji Fox responded way back on the Beta forum and explained exactly why the English version of the FFXIV used this older style of spell naming incidentally, so I feel I would just be repeating it.
.

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Still doesn't change the fact that the Japanese versions of the game didn't trasnlate to the English versions due to hardware limitiations on consoles way back when, so yes, the spell names have always been ara, aga and aja. I know what I'm talking about. What if I had grown up with the Japanese versions of the games on NES and Snes, I clearly haven't sure, but would you still try to tell me I'm wrong? I got nothing against and want no bad blood but yes I would like to put this behind us too so I'll ask, do you have link to beta posts? cause I'm interested in reading.

I don't think they'll ever do another class --> job thing again.
And where are the classic fencer skills? Swarm strike, feather blow to name a few.