Current Game Feedback.

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Originally Posted by MihaelB

They've lowered the complexity for lots of things in my opinion and put a time duration sticker over it to try make it difficult resulting in a very quick transition to boredom instead of gradual excitement.

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I agree they have lowered the complexity of some things, Alexander normal people a point on this but i think it really did just drain the interest from savage mode, my experience of doing coil was all week you would strike to get a turn down, and everyone would be so excited just to see that little end cutscene and find out more of the story, my teams loved having the gear and basically having the passive "look what i did" look. which is essentially now gone :(

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Originally Posted by Nandalowell

I remember a time when it took my linkshell a month to get our first Ifrit hard clear. Now you can have (even expected to have) a primal on farm practically the next day. Ah well.. Obviously something is working this time, else the game woulda tanked again. :\

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yep I really enjoyed those days. I't really felt like another thing to work towards and actually sink time in to for a worth while reward, that being said I felt Sephirot and Thordan's difficulty level was about right, it wasn't SUPER MEGA hard but enough to take a week to learn, I think the token system they have for them is spot on and same with savage Alexander, however normal Alexander's token system id like to see the same as those, (baring in mind you can buy same ilevel crafted gear on release that is better because of melding, I don't believe this would have hurt and also would of taken away a bit of the monotonousness from both versions of Alexander.

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Originally Posted by neoxdeciple

I agree they have lowered the complexity of some things, Alexander normal people a point on this but i think it really did just drain the interest from savage mode, my experience of doing coil was all week you would strike to get a turn down, and everyone would be so excited just to see that little end cutscene and find out more of the story, my teams loved having the gear and basically having the passive "look what i did" look. which is essentially now gone :(

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The problem is, since it is the only long term activity for endgame, raid content has been a polarizing experience. Your fun in coil was my frustration. And I think a lot of it may have to do with how players approach content and how much bring in a new player is subtlely discouraged. (Yes there is a tome bonus, but that is only if you win, are you going to win with a greenhorn? No? Then you shouldn't bring the new player. "Oh look a new player bonus, this means we have a greenhorn! And that we are not going to win."

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Originally Posted by Kallera

The problem is, since it is the only long term activity for endgame, raid content has been a polarizing experience. Your fun in coil was my frustration. And I think a lot of it may have to do with how players approach content and how much bring in a new player is subtlely discouraged. (Yes there is a tome bonus, but that is only if you win, are you going to win with a greenhorn? No? Then you shouldn't bring the new player. Oh look a new player bonus, this means we have a greenhorn! And that we are not going to win.

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Because you were never a greenhorn, right?

You never had to learn the fights, right?

You never needed the help of others to clear a difficult fight, right?

You never made any mistakes that made it more difficult for the rest of the group, right?

"Greenhorn" isn't just a nicer sounding euphemism for "scrub", right?

Since you people seem to be complete amnesiacs about anything but "your own awesomeness", allow me to remind you - you were once that "greenhorn", too. Your success in that content relied on the help and patience from others that you - and others like you - so dismissively deny others who need it as well.

Does the phrase "paying it forward" mean anything to you? Probably not.

And don't even start with the "they just want to be carried" nonsense. I realize that's a convenient cop-out people like you use to justify it to yourselves, while still maintaining your oh-so-critical sense of self-importance and superiority. Sadly, you and everyone who thinks like you - are wrong more often than you realize. There are lots of people who are eager to learn the fights, who want to carry their weight and earn the win. Of course, you couldn't know that, because you don't give those people a chance. You just dismiss them outright as "scrubs wanting to be carried". I see it over and over, time and again, in these forums, other forums, and even in in-game discussions.

Develop some self-awareness, and get the hell over yourself. You're not that special and your achievements are not that important.

SE made the story available via easy mode because too few people could clear raid. Whilst I understand that, the feeling of finally getting a fight down and getting the next cutscene, and slice of the story was truly epic, especially if it was something we'd been working on for weeks. Watching the twins delve ever deeper into finding Bahamut was great, and something we've sadly lost completely.

The price of dumbing everything down so it is so completely faceroll is not something that should be ignored.
We are now at the stage where people can clear content with inappropriate gear, broken gear, and, in some cases, no gear at all in some slots.

I put it down to "elitist" tag. Anything that is not beatable by everyone is deemed too hard. Anyone that does not agree, and even hints that maybe the player in question may need to improve, is demonised as an elitist.

There is no reward in beating something that has no difficulty at all, and imo the best reward was the feeling of finally beating something I'd worked so hard to clear

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Originally Posted by Preypacer

Because you were never a greenhorn, right?

You never had to learn the fights, right?

You never needed the help of others to clear a difficult fight, right?

You never made any mistakes that made it more difficult for the rest of the group, right?

"Greenhorn" isn't just a nicer sounding euphemism for "scrub", right?.. .

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Um, what are you on about? I'm saying it is the players encouragement to create "no bonus" parties in order to win(and thus, get a reward at all) that is the problem. I am well aware that I end up in learning parties after the rush and experience waiting for hours on end for what can be a dice roll on progression. Why? Because the more experienced parties tend to not look for a player who has not cleared, Even if you have been to enrage, you better ask nicely and not just waltz in becaaaause...the new player bonus, with all the unfortunate implications it carries, will pop up.

You ever see the reaction of what happens when that occurs? The assumptions made, the people ditching? I know there are players that, for one reason or another, need replacement, but the general belief that ANY new player must be ostracized from more experienced parties to win at all is a problem. Surely it doesn't have to be like that.

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Originally Posted by Nandalowell

I remember a time when it took my linkshell a month to get our first Ifrit hard clear. Now you can have (even expected to have) a primal on farm practically the next day. Ah well.. Obviously something is working this time, else the game woulda tanked again. :\

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Well, for people who can farm an X primal the day after, it didn't take a month to beat Ifrit HM (and a month for Titan HM I understand, but for Ifrit ? ^^)

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Originally Posted by randysquirrel

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There is no reward in beating something that has no difficulty at all, and imo the best reward was the feeling of finally beating something I'd worked so hard to clear

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There is also the feeling of not beating something for months and years. It makes some people gun shy of trying any other difficult content. You cannot just will people to get better, eventually they will just stop trying, and the people banging their heads at a raid(not the people that have it on farm mid tier mind you) will also want to stop trying. As the devs mentioned, when you get to that point, it is as if the raiding tier doesn't exist.

You could do it, if you kept plugging away at enough pf and df parties and get lucky. But not everyone has that tolerance or is willing to do it on things again and again.

Just a quick question for the OP (since I've only gone through the 1st instance of the First Coil) -- was there a 'savage'-like mode for Coil of Bahamut? Was there a different (or no) story presented in the non-savage mode? Of course, if there was only one mode the question is moot.

I don't raid, so haven't experienced the 'previous' tier, just wanted to know if it was so different.

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Originally Posted by DPZ2

Just a quick question for the OP (since I've only gone through the 1st instance of the First Coil) -- was there a 'savage'-like mode for Coil of Bahamut? Was there a different (or no) story presented in the non-savage mode? Of course, if there was only one mode the question is moot.

I don't raid, so haven't experienced the 'previous' tier, just wanted to know if it was so different.

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Yes there was a savage difficulty of 2nd coil only, it was a massive step up from the original mode and was centered around catering for the "hard core" raiders. same bosses, harder hitting and more punishing mechanics, rewards was exactly the same as the original mode (although the original mode back then was in no way easy) except a title to show off. Story was also the same, but you have to understand that you didn't run savage for the gear, it was really purely for the challange or title, where as the normal 2nd coil had its own unique rewards. (2nd coil can in no way be compared to the difficulty and repeated grind of Alexander normal because of the difficulty's are in no way similar, and the rewards are different, coil normal provided end game tier gear as well as savage.)

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Originally Posted by randysquirrel

I put it down to "elitist" tag. Anything that is not beatable by everyone is deemed too hard .... There is no reward in beating something that has no difficulty at all, and imo the best reward was the feeling of finally beating something I'd worked so hard to clear

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Your statement comes off as elitist to me. How can you judge what is hard for someone? I'm pushing 60 yrs old and no longer have the reflexes to do certain levels of content no matter how hard I try. Does this mean I should be cutoff from the end game storyline and the full game content? Or could it be that the easier levels you call a faceroll are actually no less challenging and an accomplishment for a good portion of the player base.

This is one thing I see across MMO's and that is the lack of empathy of many of the players. Maybe if more folks took into account that not everyone is young or healthy some of the disparagement and blaming of easy content as ruining the game might go away.