What are summoners going to do now

One ilm punch isn't the only skill that can remove aetherflow; smn's wither and pld's goring blade can too.

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Originally Posted by PArcher

One ilm punch isn't the only skill that can remove aetherflow; smn's wither and pld's goring blade can too.

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Isn't the PLD skill Glory Blade? The thing that makes OIP especially strong is that it can be spammed so you're much more likely to catch Aetherflow instead of some useless padding. Though I don't mind either way whether the special PVP abilities can remove it, I just think that SMN and SCH could be thrown a bone since Aetherflow already defies most other restrictions of self-buffs and it powers most of their mechanics. By all means keep OIP useful for regular buff effects, however.

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Originally Posted by Serilda

In fairness I do think that they should look at the Aetherflow issue as it seems unnecessarily cruel. There's no guarantee you'll have a MNK on your team but if you do it's disproportionately stacked against two jobs, and in addition I don't think forcing a particular counter is how SMN should have been balanced. I'd support them making Aetherflow immune to OIP.

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That's one of the ways SCH/SMN were originally nerfed. Originally Aetherflow was immune to buff removers... but then they added it into the pool of things that can be removed. So I'm thinking it's doubtful it will get changed back. =/

SMNs have a huge list of stacked nerfs in PvP now and I think it's safe to say they've overdone it with this patch. Their burst needed toning down for sure but why on earth were their dots and sole source of crowd control (their only means of defence given that they have no defensive cooldowns) nerfed as well?

SMNs need to have a lot of the previous nerfs reversed in light of these changes. Miasma needs to apply heavy again, just don't transfer the effect with bane. Aetherflow should not be strippable.

Given that they are the outright squishiest job in the game they need some way to defend themselves if they're not allowed to be the glass cannon they were designed as.

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Originally Posted by Alberel

SMNs have a huge list of stacked nerfs in PvP now and I think it's safe to say they've overdone it with this patch. Their burst needed toning down for sure but why on earth were their dots and sole source of crowd control (their only means of defence given that they have no defensive cooldowns) nerfed as well?

SMNs need to have a lot of the previous nerfs reversed in light of these changes. Miasma needs to apply heavy again, just don't transfer the effect with bane. Aetherflow should not be strippable.

Given that they are the outright squishiest job in the game they need some way to defend themselves if they're not allowed to be the glass cannon they were designed as.

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Agreed. Aetherflow shouldn't be removable. Question: Can Greased Lightning stacks, Astral or Umbral stances and similar effects be removed as well or is this just exclusive to Aetherflow?

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Originally Posted by Serilda

Isn't the PLD skill Glory Blade?.

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Blaming autocorrect on that one. Hate the phone

I do agree aether shouldn't be removed, or allow things like greased lightning to be as well

I think there's a good argument for restoring Aetherflow to its previous state now because those original changes were made back when 50 was the cap. Aetherflow became even more important to SMNs in 3.x and without it their options are severely limited. In addition, it's inherently unfair to have one job with a hard counter for another in a mode where you can't see your opponents' party configuration until yours is locked in.

Not a big fan of Miasma also inflicting heavy though since it's already quite punishing to cleanse the messes SMNs make and Miasma is extremely easily applied as part of a normal damage cycle, but another option to complement the binds would probably be fair. I'd prefer it was handled via a Lethargy-style PVP-specific ability, personally, or perhaps pet abilities could come into play a bit more here to reward controlling the pet properly (using Garuda's knockback as inspiration) and making the pet more of a threat in general. Or give Miasma heavy, but remove Miasma from Tri-Disaster (PVP only) to make applying it a conscious choice rather than something which just naturally happens when the one player misjudged and suddenly everyone in the party is debuffed, taking damage and slowed. The suggestion to make the heavy not spread via Bane would also work for that, I guess. It's just a bit punitive to make their heavy something that's naturally protected by multiple debuffs right from the moment it's applied, while other jobs will find their crowd control is easily stripped off if the healer is left free to cast.

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Originally Posted by BloodPact

Agreed. Aetherflow shouldn't be removable. Question: Can Greased Lightning stacks, Astral or Umbral stances and similar effects be removed as well or is this just exclusive to Aetherflow?

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Just aetherflow. It was a special case. A change made likely to reign in scholar's healing ability compared to whm back when frontlines (secure) was the most active pvp mode, at least that's what I think.

Either way, the circumstances have certainly changed at 60 and with feast.

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Originally Posted by kingatlas

They are acting like melee dps can't burst as high.
And they can do it more often, and they have more defence and health.

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Yeah, but melee have to actually melee. SMN can kind of just chill at a distance and nuke the bejeezus out of everyone.

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Originally Posted by PArcher

One ilm punch isn't the only skill that can remove aetherflow; smn's wither and pld's goring blade can too.

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Don't forget AST's Retrogradation.

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Originally Posted by BloodPact

Agreed. Aetherflow shouldn't be removable. Question: Can Greased Lightning stacks, Astral or Umbral stances and similar effects be removed as well or is this just exclusive to Aetherflow?

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Pretty sure Wrath stacks can be removed, which is more akin to Aetherflow than any of those.

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Originally Posted by HakaseNyan

Oh no, summoners will actually have to try now! :^)

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I know right? Scary thought!