The funny thing is I never get any actual examples of "taking the FFXI route" instead of "improving on XIV's unique systems" aside from auto-attack, which frankly I violently hate the thought of playing a melee attacker -without- auto-attack, so...
Do, like, chocobos and airships count, here, because they were the FFXI solution to "move around from place to place quickly"? Should they have somehow modified the anima system to make it less soul-suckingly awful?
I'm not -actually- trying to come off snarky here for the record, I am just kind of mystified by what exactly is meant by the complaints.
What is so bad about FFXI?
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10-22-2011, 04:05 AMTeakwood
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10-22-2011, 04:10 AMJennestiaNah, the "XI-2" issue generally comes from people who are against that game (for whatever reason) and assume anyone who even mentions it (btw, Yoshida mentions FFXI a lot lately when referring to foundation systems) wants a direct copy. I mean, naturally when you hear Final Fantasy XIV as well as It's an MMORPG which is being developed by Square Enix you naturally assume they would have built off of what FFXI laid over the past 10ish years.Quote:
Originally Posted by AdvancedWind
Not a clone, but building off of it -- XIV could have launch with damn well an offline RPG worth of storyline content if they built off of the same flow as XI, same with content systems, i.e Besieged/Campaign (guess what Imperial raids are reminiscent of?) Assault type systems where you do x type of raids and gather points to purchase gear and items and so on. Basically, things like that, which obviously is present in other RPGs, but the way XI did it had a twist to it, usually incorporating it into the storyline, most MMOs don't really add raids and the like to storyline, just a small backstory blurb as to why the instance even exists.
So there's nothing wrong with FFXI really and XIV wouldn't even exist as an MMO if they didn't succeed with XI because if it failed like some people in the XIV community like to say, they wouldn't have attempted FMO (didn't fail either, but wasn't as popular) nor would they do it a 3rd time (FFXIV).
As said there's really 3 eras of FFXI, which linked with how the MMO community changed:
CoP - Era, also known as the challenge era and golden age of FFXI, because not only did it offer a lot of base content expansion, it also offered twice as much end-game content than vanilla and zilart.
ToAU/WoTG - Era, also known as the beginning of the casual era. It fixed all of the problems people complained about, i.e having to actually do work for the storyline and made the storyline doable in a very quick pace ignoring Japanese midnight waits. It also added in a bunch of point based systems as well as one system we all love or hate (Salvage.) Later, it added poppable NMs (ZNM) and Einherjar (tier based dungeons.) Not to mention WoTG's epic storyline, but it also was the start of XIV's physical production...so the storyline spanned over 3 years....
Then comes Abyssea, which is the ultimate requiem to how MMOs are these days - Do a little work, gain massive rewards to the point you're almost overflowing with handouts. That's not to say it's a bad thing, but it does show just how MMOs have changed and what people come to expect. Whether you love it or hate it, Abyssea was well received because people who just join the game can get well geared in very short time compared to how long it used to take back in 2004-2006. -
10-22-2011, 04:18 AMTezz_XivectroStanding around or AFK in almost everything you do.Quote:
What is so bad about FFXI?
That's what's wrong with FF11. Shouldn't a game be fun. At least to the point where you're actually playing the game. Not wanting to leech & afk (not just talking about leveling either).
Back when FF11 first started the older mentality was nothing like this. We're in a day & age where we need time sinks without them seeming like time sinks.
SE has to find a way to psychologically mind-fuck people into doing long content.
It needs to be something we actually feel like doing & progression is clear/"fun". Not a dull chore. -
10-22-2011, 04:21 AMAdvancedWindWell, like I said, things that worked well in XI should surely and absolutely be brought here, specially when it comes to features like chocobos, auction house, party search, etc. We do already draw a lot from XI, by the way; just look at the races.Quote:
Originally Posted by Teakwood
The problem (at least to me) comes in posts like these, that we all run every once in a while.
"Our gear isn't sufficiently unique "
Make AF gear or something almost like AF gear!
"Battle Regimen sucks"
Bring Skillchains back!
"we need more competition between LSs"
24 hour spawn nm!
"There's gonna be a Dragoon job..."
Wyvern like in XI please!
"New Instanced Dungeon..."
SEA / SKY / CoP Mission clone please!
"So, we are thinking about housing..."
MOG HOUSE COPY PASTE IT NOW
"Chocobos will be unlocked with seals..."
No! It needs to be a time consuming quest that makes us earn it thought pure pain!
"This content is somewhat cas..."
XI HARDCORENESS ONRY!
This is the kind of thing that, to me, just sounds "please make FFXI-2", and this is exactly the thing I am personally against. -
10-22-2011, 04:21 AMReliquiaI believe chocobos and airships do count, these didn't make their debut in FFXI (this sentence was edited in regards to Answa pointing out my mistake), but because the implementation that worked in FFXI also did in FXIV.Quote:
Originally Posted by Teakwood
I do also agree that the auto attack was a great victory, but looking at something as fundamental as combat I think that FFXIV needs better casting animations. But mostly I am aiming at large scale content. But what I really miss the is the great sense of accomplishment through hard work, exploration, companionship and pioneering.
Most of these "citations" are however more important than the topic about jumping and swimming. And saying that those "citations" being a "please make FFXI-2" comment sounds to me just as vague and insubstantial as claiming that "please bring jumping" to be "please make this a WOW-clone" comment.Quote:
Originally Posted by AdvancedWind
Those things are being discussed because at the moment they aren't meeting our needs and expectations with satisfaction. -
10-22-2011, 04:25 AMGramul
There was a lot of stuff I loved from XI.
Specifically the varied environments and things that took time and commitment to achieve.
I can understand people wanting things to take skill to accomplish over time, but that's something I would expect more from action games. This is an RPG with minor action elements. To me, that means it should require strategy more than skill. -
10-22-2011, 04:30 AMJennestiaThis is true actually, can you explain what was wrong with skillchains? Player A uses a WS, Player B uses an appropriate WS, Player A & B creates a skill chain, higher level Player C also uses a WS which creates a level 3 SC (or 2 level 3 appropriate WS's used, I.e Hexa Strike > Savage Blade)Quote:
Originally Posted by AdvancedWind
Battle Regimen, in comparison, while it had more effects applied to it, it was a step backwards in execution. This isn't saying make a FFXI-2, but it's the same general system, only BRs was done in a backwards way.
Lumoria and Tu`Lia were great areas design wise, as well as lore wise, this is why I'd want to see a "clone", a place built around lore, not lore built around a place (which is what most MMOs do.)Quote:
"New Instanced Dungeon..."
SEA / SKY / CoP Mission clone please!
The problem is, the systems that exist between the two "Linkshell and BR for example", took 1 step forward from it's predecessor, then 1,000,000 steps backwards. That's why people say "it should be like FFXI" because making it the way XI did..then enhancing it would have been the wiser decision. -
10-22-2011, 04:30 AMAnswaDid... did you just say chocobos and airships started in FFXI? *eyes twitch* Did you? *dies*Quote:
Originally Posted by Reliquia
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10-22-2011, 04:36 AMReliquiaI think that's how it came out, but not what I meant to say lol. I was saying that they didn't start in FFXI, but the success of the same implementation in FFXI also worked in FFXIV.Quote:
Originally Posted by Answa
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10-22-2011, 04:39 AMalexi14
FFXI Rocked. It was my first MMO, and my favorite. I would LOVE to see an identical FFXIV with the same jobs + new jobs, maybe some new races, a new world, and better graphics. FFXI was amazing, and if they just took that entire system and made it "new", i'd buy it and play it forever.
The ONLY reason I don't play FFXI is becasue they made the level cap 90, and made it all easy mode. Also, the graphics are old. This is where FFXIV can take over and carry the torch.
A noob in FFXI gets into dunes, and they wonder what quafim will be like. They hear about it, and the great exp, and they can't wait to experience it. Then they get to quafim, and they start to hear about kazham, and once again, they can't wait to experience it for themselves. Then they hear about crawlers nest, and once again, it's a whole new world. It's beautiful.
FFXIV has nothing but levels. You gain a level, and you know wherever you are going, it will likely look the same as the last one.
Make FFXIV world more pretty. I don't care if it needs zones. Also, ADD A PARTY SEARCH FUNCTION THAT WORKS.