Roles need to be changed to better reflect the game.

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Originally Posted by sackings

if you find DPS on tank or healer stressful, no offense but you really dont understand your job that well or its capabilities.

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So tell me exactly why it's not stressful for a WHM to be switching in and out of cleric stance while keeping a party alive with a tank that uses all STR accessories, but lacks the knowledge to use cooldowns properly with DPS who easily pull off the tank because the tank is under the assumption that "m-muh dps" is the most important thing.

If someone just wants to tank or just wants to heal they can, they don't have to DPS if thats not their role in spite of what other may think or say.

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Originally Posted by SonKevin

...FFXI did it right...

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As someone who loves FFXI and actively played it for a few years...

What they got right was the jobs were unique and were completely focused on the role they were given and each job felt unique. What they didn't get right was game balance. They didn't even try to balance it until the end of the game's life.

Nobody wanted a Puppetmaster because of lower damage and utility than other jobs. Beastmaster was the "solo" job. You were bad if you utilized any not heal/haste/refresh ability as RDM in a group ("HEAL, HASTE, REFRESH ONRY!"). Warrior, the original tank in XI, was generally used as a DD to let the PLD or NIN tank (assuming PLD or NIN in party). PLD would lose out on tank spots in the party to NIN because blink tanking was better overall, especially if the enemy didn't have AoEs to eat the shadows. Rangers could easily rip hate from tanks if they weren't careful, and tanks could forget about pulling the mob off the ranger if the ranger decided to pull.

A good RDM/NIN (main job/sub job) could (slowly) solo nearly anything with proper use of Stoneskin, Blink, Utsusemi Ichi, Utsusemi Ni, Refresh, and Regen while under the effect of Composure. Dancer could do the same (to a lesser extent because they are very squishy) because of it's near infinite TP pool to heal.

I could go on and on about the poor balance in FFXI. At least in XIV they're trying to make sure no players get left out of content simply because they chose the "wrong" job.

But yeah, particularly in super high end content all jobs seem to be expected to push DPS no matter what and it may be hurting the game. Lower level content people don't seem to care if the tank is stacking STR gear or the healer doesn't want to DPS.

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Originally Posted by SonKevin

So tell me exactly why it's not stressful for a WHM to be switching in and out of cleric stance while keeping a party alive with a tank that uses all STR accessories, but lacks the knowledge to use cooldowns properly with DPS who easily pull off the tank because the tank is under the assumption that "m-muh dps" is the most important thing.

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What you're describing isn't a game issue. It's a bad tank issue.

It's funny that you mentioned this. Because the main reason i went scholar pre 3.0 is because i wanted something more to do as a summoner. (I also wanted an excuse to be lazy sometimes)

Moving on,

I do find it sort of annoying that in many situations you HAVE to dps as a healer/tank to pass dps checks. I like to do it for fun, not because i have to.

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Originally Posted by SonKevin

The trinity is kind of archaic. The biggest problem this game was compromising on support characters. FFXI did it right. FFXIV still can't decide the game it wants to be.

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Aye FFXI did indeed do it right, despite what others may say to the contrary.

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Originally Posted by File2ish

FFXI Balance Issues

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Oh, don't get me wrong. FFXI had a lot of balance issues. I remember losing my crap de-leveling because I couldn't kill a couple of mobs on Qufim island Island by myself (who was much higher in level). Hell, you couldn't even unlock airships without a large party/alliance for a long time. I understand that they went ahead and decided to make sure no one got left behind this time around, but it also caused the issue we have today where almost everyone is the same with the exception of one or two gimmicks. We're going to see in the coming patches on how they decide to "fix PLD". It's going to be interesting to say the least.

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Originally Posted by Slappah

What you're describing isn't a game issue. It's a bad tank issue.

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It's a bad tank issue that was created by a meta by the gaming community on an issue regarding the broken game. The bad player got the idea from somewhere.

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Originally Posted by sackings

if you find DPS on tank or healer stressful, no offense but you really dont understand your job that well or its capabilities.

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While 'Git Gud' is a easy way out of any content conversation, it's also going to allow issues that are less fun and more stressful to stick around longer.

Of course tanks and healers DPS to a point, to a point.
But if you make DPS a central feature of the jobs then you might find a trend of 'Well if I have to DPS then I might as well be a bloody DPS'
Where will our queue times be when a much larger percentage of the population is DPS?

Now, this whole conversation mainly stems from the end game, but a trend is a trend. Top groups hate AS. Medium Groups hate it. Casual groups don't even see it. So who is enjoying the DPS requirements from all jobs?

DPS from healers is a privilege, its to be enjoyed by a group where the tank is mitigating like a pro and the DPS are on the ball and not killing themselves because they didn't dodge X. Making Tanks and Healers be absolutely required to churn DPS is changing the role.

Now naturally there are people who really like DPSing as a non DPS role, good. That is their own fun and they are here for fun.

But what of the person who hates DPSing so they play a PLD - they position perfectly, they hold the hate, they dodge the things, they mitigate like a pro... but if they are being told they are not good enough because of their DPS? Then why should they even bother? (Could this be one of the reasons the Alex clear numbers are 'so low')

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Originally Posted by Krokov

If someone just wants to tank or just wants to heal they can, they don't have to DPS if that's not their role in spite of what other may think or say.

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Sadly, that's not the "meta" in the current game system, despite the devs removing accuracy in healers end game gear; therefore, indicating they don't really want them to dps, that's still not the case.

Prior to 3.0 STR-only tanking was controversial, but most believe it was better for skilled raiders or when you're overgeared. Now it seems generally accepted to be a STR tank and VIT tanking is the one that's viewed a controversial.

I am seeing alot more people posting how tanks/healers should dps; not dps when they can, but dps as part of their jobs.

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Originally Posted by sackings

if you find DPS on tank or healer stressful, no offense but you really dont understand your job that well or its capabilities.

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I say teach me, lala, teach me, all the learning here is by you ♪
Ironic as it may sound, healers are supposed to heal, ESPECIALLY on a Final Fantasy game.