JP server player is calling us out. Step up, NA endgamers.

I fully agree with this sentiment. I really hate when you go into content you're new to and people expect you to know it as well as the ones who've run it a hundred times.....

The best example I have of this is when I first attempted A4 normal back before ESO gear came out. I mentioned that I was new and didn't know the fight when I went in, and after a single wipe was kicked. To make matters worse, the wipe was in part because I didn't know how to handle the adds, and as such when someone marked one of them with the (1) marker, I attacked that one. After this, there was no warning when we respawned, just a moment of standing there and suddenly I had been kicked. I could get it if I had been causing three or four wipes on the same mechanic, but this was the very first attempt, of my very first attempt at the run itself.....

Why is it that players go into content with the "be perfect or GTFO" attitude? Don't get me wrong, I can get annoyed at players making repeated stupid mistakes, or not knowing how to even come close to play their class in higher level runs, but I've never once voted to kick someone because the group wiped once. The same thing goes with voting to abandon or leaving because of just a couple of wipes. It took me forever to get a DF group to finish Odin, because the combination of a 40min wait mixed with players leaving the second we wiped, made it very difficult to get anyone to stay long enough to clear it.....

At what point, and to what point, is anyone responsable for thier own performance? I see so much here on these forums where the team is responsable for the few who can't be bothered to try, rather than everyone being part of the team. So I would counter challange with, learn your roles people. Ask not what your team can do for you, ask what you can do for your team.

Btw, haven't had a chance to watch video, at work.

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Originally Posted by Whiteroom

At what point, and to what point, is anyone responsable for thier own performance? I see so much here on these forums where the team is responsable for the few who can't be bothered to try, rather than everyone being part of the team. So I would counter challange with, learn your roles people. Ask not what your team can do for you, ask what you can do for your team.

Btw, haven't had a chance to watch video, at work.

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I'll agree that there are plenty of players out there who don't bother to make an attempt at learning their rotations, but that's not the point of this thread. It's not asking for people to be willing to carry such players, but rather for them to be willing to work with the ones that are actually trying. It's one thing for players to know how to play their class. It's another for the rest of the team to either kick them or abandon the run if said player is unfamiliar with the fight, or makes a single mistake.....

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Originally Posted by Devils_Lawyer

Maybe those DPS would perform better if they were helped rather then tossed out like trash cause they cant perform. (insulted, vote kicked etc)

Now sure i have read my fair share of "they refuse to learn" topics on this forum but I'm more willing to believe that people simply are not willing to teach and rather just blame others for not getting better on their own.

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Listen if someone is actually trying to clear hard content why on earth should they be required to take in a first timer or someone who is incapable. If you want to learn a fight make a learning party and network with other players who are also learning.

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Originally Posted by Gamer3427

I'll agree that there are plenty of players out there who don't bother to make an attempt at learning their rotations, but that's not the point of this thread. It's not asking for people to be willing to carry such players, but rather for them to be willing to work with the ones that are actually trying. It's one thing for players to know how to play their class. It's another for the rest of the team to either kick them or abandon the run if said player is unfamiliar with the fight, or makes a single mistake.....

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Tbh, I don't run into a lot that abandon quick when everyone is trying. The odd one sure, but mostly it is stuff like seeing the second oppressor spawn in A1N at 70% when everyone has ilvl 200 weapons. Or when people can't be bothered to dodge, or execute the simplest of mechanics even after acknowledging the mechanic.

Some of insta abandons I think stem from the same thing that drove Winterluna to create the, "Block people without clears" option for PF request. I stopped joining most PF a while back, because you almost always had people trying to sneak in for free clears, then leaving, causing the group to fall apart, or even not clear. People get sick of that, really sick of it. People lose paitence for those that can't be bothered to try, or for what they se as obvious mistakes, because in part, they have a lot of previous experience with that. I see a hell of a lot more people sneaking into farms than I ever see learning parties, and you don't need a clear to start a PF group.

Now for the above, I understand things are better on the Japan servers and you see much less of the above behaviour. This makes for a better community and enviroment.

It's not just elitest idiots who sour the community, it's also the entitled selfish sub-par who do. If there were more honesty and effort put in by people, you would see less of the OP issue.

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Originally Posted by Gamer3427

I fully agree with this sentiment. I really hate when you go into content you're new to and people expect you to know it as well as the ones who've run it a hundred times.....

The best example I have of this is when I first attempted A4 normal back before ESO gear came out. I mentioned that I was new and didn't know the fight when I went in, and after a single wipe was kicked. To make matters worse, the wipe was in part because I didn't know how to handle the adds, and as such when someone marked one of them with the (1) marker, I attacked that one. After this, there was no warning when we respawned, just a moment of standing there and suddenly I had been kicked. I could get it if I had been causing three or four wipes on the same mechanic, but this was the very first attempt, of my very first attempt at the run itself.....

Why is it that players go into content with the "be perfect or GTFO" attitude?

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I'm going to say that it's because, while it was your first time, you should have read about and watched the strategy online first, and thus should have familiar with how the fight was supposed to go. Under this assumption, you wouldn't have had legitimate reason to make such a mistake, first time or no.

Now, I don't necessarily agree with this mindset, but there it is. That's where this community is at now. :/

What also happens is when you actually try to help people, some take it personally/wrong, or they just simply refuse to listen. Most of the time it's on both sides, not just the better players. "I play my way" or silent people are the worst.

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Originally Posted by FaileExperiment

I'm going to say that it's because, while it was your first time, you should have read about and watched the strategy online first, and thus should have familiar with how the fight was supposed to go. Under this assumption, you wouldn't have had legitimate reason to make such a mistake, first time or no.

Now, I don't necessarily agree with this mindset, but there it is. That's where this community is at now. :/

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But that's just it, and what I'm getting at. People expect you to know all the details about a fight before you go into it. They have no tolerance for anyone who makes a mistake or doesn't actively watch a video for every run they go into. This is the same point that the OP and the video are making. Most NA/EU players care only about running content quickly, and if you aren't perfect by their standards they start getting mad, or give up all hope in regards to a run. This is particularly annoying that this is the mindset with DF content.....

It's also one thing if it was something like an EX primal three or four months after it's been out, but as I pointed out, that attempt was before ESO gear came out, so the content was still new....

Party finder on this game is the worst. But at the same time, I remember my time back in FFXI: Japanese players were no better or worse than NA / EU players, but they were more openly hostile without provocation between the "JP Only" and "NA leave [the game]" stuff going on. I'm not quite so willing to believe their situations are far better than ours in 14 since the servers are segregated; if the servers accommodated by default all regions like they did in FFXI, I'm not so sure they'd be able to claim a moral high ground.

People freak out cause a lot of people run away when stuff gets to hard.

Or

complains then kicks people before they can learn, a video will not show you learning curve.

instead of kicking start learning cant learn nothing if you kick.


I have said this many many times, people go get people to have them beat the run for them and to me that tells me the person who kicks is the person who is actually getting the help because they cant do it without someone better.

my cousin is a really good tank he doesn't like kicking people, he thinks of giving people chances to learn.

Though people inside party other than him arent so forgiving they are quick to kick because they want someone else who knows the fight and let that person be someone elses problem.