Damage Meters

Ok Terribad, I can see the point you bring.
How about this; if a "casual/bad" is "scared of colors" in game, as in the player has found through leveling and story progression and open-world regular mob killing that he's only hitting 'Orange Level' at best.
Next step would be: "How does this player get the resource available to improve himself, within the confines of the game? How do they improve their skill, while being engaged in the game?"

How about this; you setup an NPC for your Job which is scripted to encourage you with tips and tricks on a dummy beside you, telling you which buttons to press on your bars (like Dance Dance Revolution style), telling the player to keep up with him, encouraging the player to get better. You could make that NPC anything really, which would work Lore-wise, such as your inner-self giving you pointers on self-improvement.
That way, it provides the players with a means to knowing if they need to improve, and an in-game tool to improve their button pressing abilities.
I think that would improve on the problem, don't you think?

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Originally Posted by Darkova

Honestly it doesn't really matter how they implement such a system as much as doing so. Someone already made a thread to have it personal so you can't be harassed by others.

The end result would be the same, the player would need to improve themselves whether it be reading online or asking friends/people for help.

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And everyone knows that the one "being harassed" won't do such a thing and screw over group after group before "he plays the way he likes and he pays monthly".

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Originally Posted by Assirra

And everyone knows that the one "being harassed" won't do such a thing and screw over group after group before "he plays the way he likes and he pays monthly".

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Well, I'm not so sure about that overall. Not looking at extreme cases, Final Fantasy XIV is a game, a fantasy game where you role-play a character. Arguable there are different player types playing the game - all are played by human being seeking enjoyment out of the game. Feeling sub-par, and getting berated by your peers, ignored by your fellow players and whatever else you would be "bringing on yourself" in acts of retaliation against others due to being angry at oneself - that isn't enjoyment.


Games do have an aspect of punishment that are integral to keeping a player playing the game, but really, overall, there needs to be enjoyment in the long run.
Wouldn't we be making things better by bringing to the table solutions from the get go that grow with the player experience rather than execute shut-down of ideas when they arise?

A player playing the way they want is fine, the game should just encourage lore-wise/game-wise better performance in certain scenario, and not arbitrarily with DPS checks that aren't communicated. communication is key, and I think in-game resource and tools present to help players would overall improve the experience and help adapt play-styles to fit the scenarios.

Let's work together on this.

Sounds like ratings for combo games, and games like Devil May Cry. I like it, got my vote.

Ok so I read a lot of other threads in the general discussions about why some players just won't change their play-style, and I understand more what you were saying Assirra. Yeah I could see that being a problem at the moment because the environment is encouraging their behavior. I'll retain my stance that if you better the environment, the players will better themselves naturally. Just like the real world.

And yeah Israacf, combo games (like DMC) have similar systems, that what I was saying.

I saw a post talking about FFXI Maast (or something) and it felt similar to certain MMOs (like The Secret World - Gatekeeper) which locks you out of harder content until you clear 1v1 scenario. That's not exactly what I wanted to bring to the table, it's not encouraging anything, but rather is gating content once more.
I feel like I'm repeating myself, but it's really something I feel the MMO genre needs to refocus (while still retaining the various addiction tactics of nowadays videogames - for monetary reasons). Gating content isn't the key.

What I would like to see is a damage meter measured in potency/second instead of damage/second. Buffs/crits should affect the potency done the same way they would affect damage done. That way gear is mostly factored out - still some effect from skill speed and crit but gives a much better way to measure yourself.

I honestly don't know why we don't have some kind of meters already. I mean you added in ilvl aka gearscore but OOOO No! We can't be having anyones feelings hurt because they are just auto attacking basically.

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Originally Posted by Voltyblast

In other words: if the fights are heavily dps based, parser is always going to be used. Make the fights less about dps, and parser might not be needed as much.

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If you took away the DPS checks why would you ever take a DPS job? just stack tanks and healers. Tanks in DPS stance can put out respectable damage, 800 plus compared to a pure DPS 1100. plus they have the survivability with extra HP. can switch to tank stance if needed. Guaranteed if they removed DPS checks then 6 tanks, 2 healers would be the way forwards.

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Originally Posted by Tarta

I saw a post talking about FFXI Maast (or something) and it felt similar to certain MMOs (like The Secret World - Gatekeeper) which locks you out of harder content until you clear 1v1 scenario. That's not exactly what I wanted to bring to the table, it's not encouraging anything, but rather is gating content once more.
I feel like I'm repeating myself, but it's really something I feel the MMO genre needs to refocus (while still retaining the various addiction tactics of nowadays videogames - for monetary reasons). Gating content isn't the key.

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I played TSW for a long time, the average skill of the players was much higher than here. I highly doubt the Gatekeeper is exactly why this was so, as TSW's community was much more mature than FFXIV's and groups were formed through personal interaction, but the Gatekeeper definitely helped keep bad players out of hard content and forced them to improve to get into it. But having the end game content gated behind the Gatekeeper ensured for the most part that people doing the content had a decent grasp of how to play their role, even if it took them a lot of tries to down him.

FFXIV definitely needs an equivalent, as the amount of Dragoons I see who can't even keep or put Heavy Thrust up, the amount of healers I see who DPS while the tank is at 10hp and literally 1 hit away from dying, and the amount of tanks who don't know how to hold aggro efficiently or use CDs when they're taking big damage, even in late game content, is too high.

People really shouldn't be allowed into harder content without proving beforehand that they're ready for it, solo, without others to carry them. Even a mild gate before things like Aery would be nice. I've seen way too many wipes on Nidhogg because people can't complete a tiny dps check....

In regards to your OP, it seems like a decent idea. However, I can already see players putting out bad dps because they don't care sneaking in to tight dps check content. They won't share their parses obviously because they'd get kicked, and the rest of the party still won't be able to tell who is not pulling their share of DPS without using a 3rd party tool. So that big issue still remains.

The system would be a nightmare, to properly get this "Colour" system to work it would need to have optimal DPS ranges for your item level or some formula using the base weapons attack and the job itself. At this point why aren't we just cutting out the middle man "Colours" in this instance and just give flat numbers, they don't lie and don't care if your colour blind.

Damage meters are not going to solve anyone problem, ever, at all. They are great for the people who use them and are great tools for them, but that's not going to give you any less bad DPS/Tanks/Heals it's only going to give people official tools to harass players. Stop relying on the duty finder to solve all your problems and you will find yourself with quality players, people who you have fought with time and time again. These people have expectations to live up too.

Random Duty finder Joe doesn't care about you or your colour coded DPS charts.