After getting dark knight 60 and playing it for a while

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Originally Posted by Hundred

What is with this bad "Cross class Lancer" crap that keeps coming.

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The reason people bring it up is because parry works well with both reprisal, and low blow(resets). More parry support would make sense in dark knight's ability list. It also helps with tp, which is a problem if you want to do good dps as an OT.

Same Ideologies were said for Warrior in 2.0.
Blood for Blood isn't getting put on a Drk so I don't see why anyone wastes their breath when if they had that intention the Dark Knight would already have its traditional health sacrificial gameplay.

@ Kelg

Soul Eater should siphon more life, I agree.

Blood Weapon useable in Grit would be a welcome change, however it wouldn't resolve our TP issues. I struggle with TP issues more then MP.

Carve and Split needs a revamping. The mana return is again negligible. For it being the level 60 ability, its lackluster.

Blood Price - Seeing as how its mainly used for packs of mobs and most if not all the dungeons trash pulls are packs of mobs, its currently pretty good in my opinion. It's not meant to be used for single target. That's why we have the siphon for single target mana regen. Don't complete the full chain, just use the first ability then siphon a couple times in a row once you have agro and bam, all your mana is pretty much returned.

Cross class - We could definitely use more variety. Its rather bland currently.

I think this is the first time I agree with most changes. Only thing I don't like are the sub lancer because what we'll gain can be instead revisioned in the actual skillset and Delirium, it's not bad the way it is, maybe the debuff could last longer but overall it's OK, it's not even weak.

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Originally Posted by Greven

I think this is the first time I agree with most changes. Only thing I don't like are the sub lancer because what we'll gain can be instead revisioned in the actual skillset and Delirium, it's not bad the way it is, maybe the debuff could last longer but overall it's OK, it's not even weak.

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I don't think Delirium is weak as in damage, it's actually fairly strong. I think the effect is a little lacking, mainly because having a monk makes it just an attack.

I agree with most of the points here. Coming from a level 50 Paladin (pre-HW), DRK seems unfocused and a bit weak overall.

My biggest complaints would be that multiple abilities are underwhelming (Dark Dance, Delirium, Shadow Wall, Living Dead), and that there is no specific focus for the job. While it seems like it was designed to deal with magic mitigation and managing MP, it doesn't do great in either (there aren't any situations in which a DRK would be chosen over a PLD or WAR).

My biggest problem so far (beside TP) is Dark Arts. For the cost, I can't really justify the effects gained (especially with the MP drain bug). I feel like this should be the main mechanic of DRK, yet it feels lackluster overall.

At any rate, I'm only 55 on DRK and by no means a pro. So maybe I just need some more practice.

I have been having little to no issues with DRK. Aggro is never an issue, and MP is rarely a problem. I just don't think many people have figured out how to optimize damage while not blowing all your MP. Also Carve and Spit is really misunderstood imo, it's a free 884 MP that's off the GCD and honestly functions better in that aspect than just a DPS gain.

DRK is about riding that fine line between damage and aggro. A lot of tanks are always trying to push bigger numbers, and I'm cool with that, that's just not me. I like seeing the big numbers like everyone else, but not if it means sacrificing more MP than I need to just for a better parse. Focusing on when to use your cooldowns and using them correctly makes DRK pretty sturdy. After running PLD throughout 2.0 DRK is a nice change of pace with a bit more attention needed. I play a tank job to tank, my DPS is good because I have a good rotation but my main goal is aggro.

DRK will never do as much damage as WAR, or be a turtle like PLD, but then again you're not a PLD/WAR so play like a DRK.

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Originally Posted by RaineAmorie

SNIP.

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I feel like you might have missed the points entirely. The people that are natural tanks surely have no problem keeping agro or managing MP. It's Dark Knight's survivability kit that's an issue, lack of Blood Weapon as MT(seeing this is the main source of MP Management next to Syphon Blade), TP Dry in 3 minutes, and few other issues.

When you try pushing for the limits, you see what is really wrong with the job and what is preventing you from touching the ceiling. If you just play average, then you won't see the issues. To say Dark Knight has no flaws is equivalent to say Astrologian and Bards(before changes) are perfectly fine once you figure things out. There's things preventing you from being on even footing or complementing your party.

yeah add MORE skills that require DORK arts. stupid idea if current dork arts manacost remains. would basicly limit us to about 2 actions and then be nearly fully drained. imo dark arts should only cost little mana and be used more often too create micro management to deepen the class complexity instead of beeing a "i wanna lose EVEN MORE MANA button".

Have been putzing around with DRK and have been looking at their abilities and rotations to get a feel of what I was getting into. I'll lend this thread my support since I do see some issues looming in the horizon.

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Originally Posted by Kelg

Living Dead: A bad skill, I almost forget it exists sometimes. It stresses the healers far more than Hallowed ground or Holmgang, and is almost never a good idea to formulate a strategy using it. As of now, if you're in a PUG, it is pretty much a death sentence once walking dead is activated. It can work in very organized groups, but it draws a lot of resources, and with what other tanks bring to the table, why bother? There are a lot of ways to fix this skill.

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Here's a suggestion for this skill:

- Living Dead: Everyone has their own personal fix for this ability. What I'd do is change it so that popping Living Dead puts the Living Dead status on you. While under the effects of Living Dead, you get a second HP bar set to your max HP that will decrease as you take damage (your "real" HP bar is unaffected by damage taken). The second HP bar is not affected by heals and instead heals will go to your "real" HP bar. The caveat is that your "real" HP has to be higher than 80% by the time Living Dead wears off (i.e after the 10 second duration or your second HP bar hitting 0). If it is, then you go back to normal. If not, you die. This removes the bullshit aspect of Living Dead and gives healers breathing room during "oh shit" situations.

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Delirium: It's okay... But I feel like it's a little underwhelming for a combo finisher. Maybe add a damage buff of 10% or so similar to maim? Or have it restore the same amount MP as Siphon strike so it could be an MP return combo(and not be useless when a monk is around).

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I like this idea.

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Dark Arts: MP cost is steep, but that's okay, it makes you be more aware when playing Dark knight. As you can see above, I think it should be more active in Dark knight's kit. It's the main gimmick of the job, and I feel like it isn't used enough.

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Dark Arts would have to be redesigned as a resource to be used more often or being a greater aspect of DRK gameplay. It wouldn't be a bad choice, since it already smells like a resource and serves a purpose eerily similar to that of a resource.