I chose BRD for swift gameplay, if I wanted to cast I would have chosen a Mage.

So then perhaps raise our base weapon damage? (BRD & MCH)

Skilled PRDPS (physical ranged DPS, trying to make that term a thing :P) don't really have too much of an issue with rotations, movement, and even dealing with damage penalties for providing the party support we're designed (in theory) to provide. So then perhaps the easy answer is just giving us better base weapon damage?

We don't need to outdamage melees or outcast casters at all, and damage reduction is baked into our support functions. So give us some better weapons to do our primary job (PRDPS) with, and perhaps that may be enough.

My opinion on it;

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by fanservice

I personally have no problems with BRDs dealing MNK/DRG/BLM damage tomorrow, as long as they're not bunny-hopping around mechanics, and spamming instants from 20y+ away.

---

I shouldn't have to explain why that's inherently stupid if they could.

Be glad SE made it a toggle instead of changing every ability's function at its base.


BRDs still have the option of jumping around like a monkey and shooting, but their damage should be rightfully lower for it.

SE didnt take anything away. They gave you a choice

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bhuni

I think it's amazing, the amount of bards running around like idiots when there's no need has dramatically decreased.

---

I got bards in my 4 man dungeons, and alexander runs that just refuse to use it at all out of principal, and as a healer who clearic stance dances, I hate having them in the party so much.

I would be fine if MCH had WM/Gauss barrel mechanics but Bard with WM does NOT feel like Bard.

It feels like ... a shoddy weak black mage. Like half a black mage, the cast time punishment WITHOUT the massive crazy AoE damage and single target burst.

I really think WM getting a buff HELPED A BIT, no doubt... but seriously ... it still doesn't feel like Bard. It feels horrible and clunky and everything wrong.

Leveling Bard up till WM is totally Bard-like, then getting WM it's like "What the hell did I suddenly pick a bloody black mage? WTF is this?!!?!?!?"

I have a bard on my static, never seen a problem with his dps, even with the new skills, during Bismark or Ravana EX. The problem is the "new gameplay" but stop saying that bard can't do a good amount of dps. It's wrong.

Cast time punishment? I can't speak for Minuet, but Gauss is like 1.5 seconds? I get that it's something wildly different once you hit 51, but you don't hear of casters or healers viewing their cast times as a punishment.

Like I said, I get that it's different. But you just adapt. Instead of constant free movement, stick and move. Positioning is now more important than ever. Pick a safe spot/distance, do the DPS thing, then when you need to move, move. If it's something like T11, consider stance dancing, or don't use it (IF you can afford not to). But if it's something like Leviathan (just as example) where you can't hit him during his dives, it doesn't matter anyways.

Honestly though, refusal to adapt or even try to learn holds us back more than anything else. Now that Alex is here, I've been pushing myself to Gauss more, and I'm beginning to like it. Glad I leveled a BLM and healers. This feels familiar, but different enough to still enjoy.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Lisotte

Obviously as a fellow Bard I understand your dismay at no longer being able to run in figure eights around bosses still doing your damage and dodging mechanics, but I think that somewhere down the line SE found it just impossible to really balance Bard the way boss fights are designed.

---

As far as I can tell, all it would require is designing BRD around continuous damage but less damage per hit compared to jobs with cast times and combo bonuses/positional requirements. 2.0 BRD was already primed for this, and all it would have taken is additional mechanics that played along with the incumbent gameplay rather than outright changing it without changing other things to make its design cohesive (instead of having BRD play as it did in 2.0 then pull the rug from under BRD's feet with WM et al). Other jobs got stuff in addition to what they already did in combat. This is why MNK, DRG and SMN benefited as much as they did from their HW abilities. Here's something I cooked up to show you what I mean. It's not perfect but I like to think it's a tiny step in the right direction.

As I've said before, if you're going to add cast times to BRD then you need to change its dependency on off-GCD attacks, and cast times should NOT be given through a stance, but assigned to certain skills.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SovereignAegis

I would be fine if MCH had WM/Gauss barrel mechanics but Bard with WM does NOT feel like Bard.

---

There is this, as well. The mechanic is copy-pasted between MCH and BRD. That's not elegant design by any stretch of the imagination.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by fanservice

BRDs still have the option of jumping around like a monkey and shooting, but their damage should be rightfully lower for it.

---

This is BS and you know it. It's not like I get penalized when I run around willy-nilly as a DRG, as long as I hit the positionals for all of two skills in my entire arsenal. Mobility is not taxed in this game, and why should it be? Casting should get a boost, sure. Melee range is a tiny, almost nonexistent handicap in this game and everyone who tries to convince people otherwise are just transparently trying to boost their own position at the expense of others.

While I dont mind WM, and Ive gotten used to it, I still feel like its not giving enough boosted dmg to warrant its use beyond an initial opener.

Ive compared myself between WM on and access to the abilities it gives, and standard 2.x vanilla bard and the DPS increase doesnt feel like its all that much better. This was on a training dummy using other peoples rotations suggested to me on the forums and online, however. Figuring in the need to dodge aoe's, I feel like it has even less appeal beyond that of an opening skill set.

All of this may just be my inexperience with it though.
Personally I think WM is not necessary. They could have given use the new attacks, and just reduced their potency to keep our DPS in line with the other classes. I dont feel it was necessary to entirely change the way the job played.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sylve

Good lord no. If you want that, go play WoW. Marksmen Hunters literally have exactly what you want and its bloody terrible there.

The cast time is fine.
Learn to play.

If you hate it so much then just turn off Minuet and keep doing crap 2.x style dps.

---

What's "fine" or not is a subjective opinion in this case.
The OP (and various other people, including the bard in my current static) chose to play Bard initially because of a certain playstyle - one that has now been forcibly changed with the expansion.

While it's possible to put out decent numbers with the new skills, many people aren't happy about the playstyle change.

I want my auto attack... and don't put restriction to use new skill only under WM.