I sure hope HW is not going to be more armor grind treadmill!

Hmmm we just try and encourage people to keep on playing. And we also have a policy if taking a prolonged break just let us know and we won't kick you.

How we encourage them? Simple when the long quiet towards HW started we started doing FC raids. We do EXs(for those that still need the clears), coils(some of the members are at t9 now via FC raids alone). We always help out members when they ask. Hell some of the members we got was by joining random PFs while they were looking for help for story based stuff. So yeah a FC is what you make of it. Encourage members to do stuff. Nudge them out of their comfort zones of being only dps/tank/healer if they are bored, help gear them up if they just hit 50 for the first time, help gear up those that are crafting/gathering.

If you can't find something to do in this game besides grind for armor, you're not looking very hard.

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Originally Posted by FoxyAreku

If you can't find something to do in this game besides grind for armor, you're not looking very hard.

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Originally Posted by Blissa

Unless you gather or craft there is nothing to do besides grind armor and level.

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The OP is only a few sentences long. Come on, guys.

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Originally Posted by SpookyGhost

The OP is only a few sentences long. Come on, guys.

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Maybe MMO is not the type of game that suits the OP? All MMOs have grinds.

What MMO isn't a armor grind from what I can tell that's pretty much the basis for most MMOs do content to get gear. Wether it be PvE stuff or PvP the point is to get gear. Plus there is a lot to do in the game other then gear grind. You can craft or chocobo race or even play triple triade plus we also have PvP. Idk maybe it's just me but I think there is plenty to do in the game still.

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Originally Posted by Chiramu

Maybe MMO is not the type of game that suits the OP? All MMOs have grinds.

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I think OP is less concerned with the grind and more concerned with how quickly the grind ends, thus causing many people to leave since they no longer feel like they've anything to do. If you're not interested in crafting or gathering, and you mainly want to focus on the battle aspect, you kind of hit a dead end when you've got a full set of the current raid gear (or if you're not interested in gear, when you beat the final boss of the current raid). It was more of a problem in 2.0 since there was literally nothing to do once you beat T5, but now you at least have the option to help friends with older raid content or the current stuff. Still, it's a concern that is rooted in games with vertical progression and it's why horizontal progression is favored in terms of making things last.

Obviously horizontal progression is not without it's problems, sometimes you end up with items that just aren't worth it, or items that are BiS for years (XI blah blah blah). But it's essentially the only way to introduce content and make it worth doing when you've got a raid that's been cleared already. EX Primals in 2.1 were actually a good example of this, especially Garuda who had an i90 ring that you could get in place of an Allagan ring that might not have been dropping for you. Personally, I'd like more stuff like the EX Primals from 2.1, and I believe (?) they said there would be more horizontal progression options in the expansion so I hope that was a thing that they said and not just something I am misremembering. ' - ')b

It's a linear themepark MMO. How do you expect it to go?

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Originally Posted by Callinon

Still a vertical game.

Btw it's common for people playing a game like this casually to come in for a patch, do whatever they want to do, and then unsub until the next patch. Yoshi P even remarked on it in a live letter and he's fine with that pattern.

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Lmao how or why would a producer of their own mmo be okay with people unsubbing? That is kind of counter productive.

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Originally Posted by Blissa

I sure hope HeavensWard is not going to be more armor grind treadmill. I have lost too many friends since release. My guild has 199 members and I only know 5 people. Why you ask? Because the turn over rate is so high.

People buy the game and join my guild. And then grind armor like crazy and when they get their gear they quit due to boardem. Unless you gather or craft there is nothing to do besides grind armor and level. Hopefully HeavensWard adds some depth to the game because I am sick of losing friends.

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Just out of curiosity what MMO isn't a gear treadmill? The only one I can think of is Guild Wars 2, though it has a small one, and even that game has less content than this game. So what are you asking for? Your being too vague. What do you hope for? Final Fantasy XVIV has 9 classes with 10 corresponding jobs, 3 gather professions and 8 crafting ones. In addition to this it has Leves, Guild Heists, dungeons, raids, hundreds of quests, PvP, Grand Company/Personal housing, Hunts, Beast Tribe Quests, the plethora of mini games found in the Gold Saucer (triple triad, chocobo racing, etc.). With this I haven't even listed everything.

There are tons of things besides leveling to do in this game and I can't say that about most MMOs. I think you might mean they don't have a specific type of content you are looking for? There is definitely room to add more depth but as far as MMOs go this one is doing a pretty good job in doing that in my opinion based on past MMO experience (WoW, Terra, GW, GW2, Wildstar, countless FTP MMOs, etc.). Is it a sandbox? No, but they were upfront from the start it would be a Final Fantasy theme park. Even with that they have added lots of sandboxesque features. Unless there is building involved like Minecraft even sandbox MMOs offer up a lot the same fare. I'm curious what your looking for. I'm not saying that your wrong, I just don't understand what your wanting.

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Originally Posted by SpookyGhost

I think OP is less concerned with the grind and more concerned with how quickly the grind ends, thus causing many people to leave since they no longer feel like they've anything to do. If you're not interested in crafting or gathering, and you mainly want to focus on the battle aspect, you kind of hit a dead end when you've got a full set of the current raid gear (or if you're not interested in gear, when you beat the final boss of the current raid). It was more of a problem in 2.0 since there was literally nothing to do once you beat T5, but now you at least have the option to help friends with older raid content or the current stuff. Still, it's a concern that is rooted in games with vertical progression and it's why horizontal progression is favored in terms of making things last.

Obviously horizontal progression is not without it's problems, sometimes you end up with items that just aren't worth it, or items that are BiS for years (XI blah blah blah). But it's essentially the only way to introduce content and make it worth doing when you've got a raid that's been cleared already. EX Primals in 2.1 were actually a good example of this, especially Garuda who had an i90 ring that you could get in place of an Allagan ring that might not have been dropping for you. Personally, I'd like more stuff like the EX Primals from 2.1, and I believe (?) they said there would be more horizontal progression options in the expansion so I hope that was a thing that they said and not just something I am misremembering. ' - ')b

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One thing they can do, which they seem to be adding in Heavensward, for horizontal progression is glamor rewards. They've already done some housing items, mounts and mini pets which I think is cool. If they expand this I think it would be fun and take away from maybe the "grind" just to level and gear up. They could even reuse old content for this.

Just some thoughts.