Healers forever gimped

MMOs are designed around tradeoffs.

WHM has high potency heals. The tradeoff is limited support capacity. SCH has high support capacity, tradeoff is limited heal strength.

WHM has HoTs to cover for low mobility, while SCH has a fairy.

WHM has a weaker AoE HoT with no cool down, while SCH has a stronger one with a cool down.

SCH has a 50/50 split in enmity with fairy and WHM can cut enmity in half every 2 minutes.

These are all balanced and fair tradeoffs between the jobs. The only discrepancy is MP recovery. There is no justification nor fair trade to why SCH has a scaling MP tool with a 1min CD + 3 optional burst recovery options (if needed) while WHM has a fixed MP tool with a 2min cool down that only rewards a small amount of MP every 3 seconds.

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Originally Posted by DarkmoonVael

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You are correct in that it lies in the responsibility of the party to play correctly. I agree with you 100%. I'm merely illustrating a point that SCH is better equipped to handle such a party due to having much more freedom where MP is spent. That is all.

I play BOTH jobs in raid content, including FCoB farming. I know the strengths and weaknesses of both jobs like the back of my hand. I even listed some of them. The only argument I am making is that, from a development standpoint, WHM needs a better form of MP recovery to balance things out. Shroud can keep the same potency, but should be on a 1min CD. If it must be kept on a 2min CD for the sake of enmity balance, the potency must be increased or scaled to max MP.

Shroud not scaling is a bit of a falsehood anyway. Because it only scales with character levels instead of any other stats, it gives off the illusion of not scaling.

And let's be honest, if White Mages got MP restoration capabilities on the level of a Scholar, they'd be brutally overpowered. :p

Right, I'll just leave this here concerning "MP issues":
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...24#post2846024

Velox keeps hitting the nail on the head.

I could go off on a rant citing specific examples to back up his points but you've all heard them all... some of you fail to listen.

I don't know any good, intelligently equipped WHMs with MP issues. The only situations that give my WHM partner in FCOB MP problems are the same that tax my SCH (i.e. when things are going to hell).

Admittedly I don't get to WHM much for Coil, but in other content I usually feel as if my MP were bottomless. Even if I spent it down recklessly (holybomb, *cough*) the passive regen from moderate PIE stacking would be enough for anything but an emergency situation.

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Originally Posted by Velox

You are correct in that it lies in the responsibility of the party to play correctly. I agree with you 100%. I'm merely illustrating a point that SCH is better equipped to handle such a party due to having much more freedom where MP is spent. That is all.

I play BOTH jobs in raid content, including FCoB farming. I know the strengths and weaknesses of both jobs like the back of my hand. I even listed some of them. The only argument I am making is that, from a development standpoint, WHM needs a better form of MP recovery to balance things out. Shroud can keep the same potency, but should be on a 1min CD. If it must be kept on a 2min CD for the sake of enmity balance, the potency must be increased or scaled to max MP.

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If Shroud was to be one a 1 min cooldown and keep same potency, you would have less mana issues on WHM than you do on SCH. WHM has the benefit of having more efficent mana:healing potency ratio (just take for example succor vs medica, also adding the potency of shields onto the spell, succor is 399mp at lvl 50, medica 319 at lvl 50) than scholar does, so the entire costs of spells would need to be reworked, most likely not just on WHM, but on SCH as well to balance out the 2 classes once again. Also, the implications of a 1 min cooldown on Shroud would have on bard balancng is also unknown.

One thing i do suspect we will see though, is Goad for mana in the expansion, or something similar perhaps.

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Originally Posted by radioactive_lego

Velox keeps hitting the nail on the head.

I could go off on a rant citing specific examples to back up his points but you've all heard them all... some of you fail to listen.

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I will leave this here, since you seem to have completely ignored the post directly above yours, which is, by the way, someone who backs up their opinion with evidence and testing.

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Originally Posted by Lyrica_Ashtine

Right, I'll just leave this here concerning "MP issues":
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...24#post2846024

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.am i too late on the mp issue train?

as far as my exp on both jobs went, regardless of job, i run onto mp issues when the dps has this fetish on dying or not avoiding damage. the difference between aetherflow and shroud is one giving instant mp to use upon immediately but is not an issue with good judgment. as a rule of thumb to myself, i keep shroud on cooldown esp when my mp dips below the 75% in anticipation for the dps i mentioned above. aetherflow, is a bit forgivable on this aspect. if the party or alliance i am in is very good, i even don't have to pay too much attention on my mp while going crazy holy spamming. mind you that i am the type of sch that spams succor even when there's a whm around as i tend to be stubborn and lacks faith on my co-healer. as a whm, if you're a dps, you're only getting a cure and regen from me as i am saving my mp on the tank. XD

oh and if i am also playing as my sch, i make sure that i place my fairy where the dps are and it is safe while i physik the tank... so yeah... dont run away from my fairy.

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Originally Posted by Lyrica_Ashtine

Right, I'll just leave this here concerning "MP issues":
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...24#post2846024

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If you get off 4 Shrouds in a 10 minute fight, you're screwing up. Shroud is a 2 minute CD, and it restores 1060 mana per cast, assuming you aren't capping. If you are capping, stop it, you are making me sad. You should use it as soon as possible in order to get more uses out of it. If you cast it at minute 1, you should also cast it at minutes 3, 5, 7, and 9 unless you need it for threat dropping, in which case, sucks for your mp regen. Basically if a fight lasts x minutes, you should get x/2 Shrouds off per fight if at all possible.

Similarly, you should try to get off an Aetherflow every minute in a fight. Use one at 30 seconds, and you can use it at every x:30 second interval going forward. We will assume no Energy Drains, because really, you have Lustrate and Lustrate makes me happy, while Energy Drain makes me sad.

That means over an x minute fight, a 5k mp WHM gets 5k initial mp + 2k mp per minute from natural regen + ~ 530 mp per minute from Shroud, depending on the exact fight length. So about 5000 + 2530 per minute.
Over an x minute fight, a 4.3k mp SCH gets 4.3k initial mp + 1720 mp per minute from natural regen + ~ 860 mp per minute from Aetherflow, again depending on the exact fight length. So about 4300 + 2580 per minute.

So over a ten minute fight, a WHM gets about 30,300 mp. A SCH gets about 30,100 mp. Seems pretty close, right? Pretty fair, right?

Wrong.

The natural difference between a WHM and SCH at 50 isn't 700 mp. It's 208 or so mp. Go ahead and test it - find a weapon with zero piety for both classes and swap back and forth without changing any other gear. Running those same numbers with the WHM at 4.5k and the SCH at 4.3k and you'll find the WHM gets only 27,800 to the SCH's 30,100. If the SCH goes piety crazy and has 4.8k mp to the WHM's 5k, the WHM gets 30,300 and the SCH gets 33,600.

Basically, the reason WHM's mp numbers are competitive in the "MP pool meta" isn't because our regen is similar - it's because WHM have to stack Piety to reach similar regen numbers. SCH don't have to do that, which means they get more points to put into Crit or Det or Spellspeed or freaking Parry or whatever. This doesn't necessarily mean the classes are unbalanced, either, but it does mean that your argument is misleading.

I wait for the day, until all see that SCH and WHM complete each other. Not only Heal wise, also DPS wise...
This game isn't about pure Healing right now. (Even when Turn 13 feels like that in the first tries, but there are plenty of "dps" holes). Better let the WHM apply his dot's instead of spamming Ruin ;). Even Stone II would be better than Ruin...
Also, if the group is fucking up even the SCH will run out of Mana. I still remember when ppl decided to take 2 WHM instead of 1 SCH 1 WHM for Titan HM lol.