Actions Taken Against RMT & Other Illicit Activities 2/12/2015

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Originally Posted by MeiUshu

consider this :

RMT sell gil, someone buy gils, with those bought gils he buys some material on the market board, making de facto the one that sold the goods in the marketboard a complice of the one that bought it why? because the market board seller got illicit money, so in a way he too bought gils from the RMT but without knowing it.

You sure you want to ban permanently the one that buys gils`?

Pushing a bit more the reasoning, and admitting that the original buyer get caught and banned, the whole chain should be brought back to initial statut.s Meaning the one that used the gils bought illegaly to buy legally stuff on the market board see those goods taken away given back to the one that wanted to sell them and the money that the one that sold them on the market board removed ..was all illicit right ?...see the point?

consider that there may some innocent victims in this....it isnt a black and white thing...there are implications...so when you demand that someone be banned permanently make sure you do not condamn an innocent and make sure that the *justice* be fair all the way if it is illicite is illicite for everybody on the chain

Again, you sure you want to ban permanently those that bought gils, based on what I said above.... dont think is theorical because is not so

Mei

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He's not going to understand this unless he got effected by it. I remember ppl complaining about millions of Gil getting taken away due to the fact that the person who bought their item used RMT Gil to buy said item. This effected a lot of ppl and turned a lot off ppl away from them, it was around the first round of RTM ban. People was on here complaining about how SE came up with the amount of Gil to take away. Think it was said it was rounded off so the you was left with a tenth of the Gil, which was a big hit for a lot of crafters/gathers who had 10s of millions of Gil but yet they cannt control who buys their item or where these ppl get their Gil from.

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Originally Posted by ereskigal

He's not going to understand this unless he got effected by it. I remember ppl complaining about millions of Gil getting taken away due to the fact that the person who bought their item used RMT Gil to buy said item. This effected a lot of ppl and turned a lot off ppl away from them, it was around the first round of RTM ban. People was on here complaining about how SE came up with the amount of Gil to take away. Think it was said it was rounded off so the you was left with a tenth of the Gil, which was a big hit for a lot of crafters/gathers who had 10s of millions of Gil but yet they cannt control who buys their item or where these ppl get their Gil from.

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I get what he was conveying. However, unknowingly receiving RMT gil through a marketboard transaction doesn't make you a gil buyer. Do you have dirty money that should be confiscated? YES! While this is unrealistic, I'd be in favor of destroying the gil that was obtained from RMT even if there was a transaction where an innocent party was part of. Like if someone who used RMT gil to buy something I put up on the market board. What I would expect is that if the gil I received from that item was destroyed. I would have the item returned.

RMT should be zero tolerance. Ban the sellers ban the buyers.

Temporary ban along with taking the RMT gil is more ideal than anything. The big thing is keeping the illegit currency out of market circulation. I came from a game where the penalty for buying ingame currency from a RMT was a 3-day suspension (versus 7 days for playing your own music ingame) and the money wasn't taken out of circulation. I don't think they ever addressed this, now items are selling for higher than the ingame currency limit per account, expansion slots excluded.

You really can't trace down gil if it's already exchanged hands; the players who sold their items and gotten the gil have already...sold off their items for it. The best option is to catch RMT gil as soon as possible, and take it out of circulation as soon as possible.

Don't forget the other end of the spectrum as someone has mentioned; the people who are buying gil are still people that are paying for subscriptions. If you off their heads on the first offense, that's the end of it. If you cut them off for a few days and take the gil out of circulation, then there's still recoverable losses without any finals.

While I agree that hash penalty's need to be taken agents people who buy the Gil because that would put a big dent in RMTs because no one would bother rusting it.

Probly just out right banning is too far for a first offence a week or month account suspension then out right ban them on the next time they do it. There's no reason what so ever to be buying gil you joined the game after agreeing to the tos there by submitting to SE rules and allowing them to be both your judge jury and executioner if you break their rules.

While I am very much in favor of punishing gilbuyers in order to more effectively cripple RMT, I do think that perma-ban on first offense might be a bit too harsh.

While we here on the forums are keenly aware of RMT and just about universally denounce it, we are a fairly small fraction of the total playerbase. Most players are barely even aware the forums exist, let alone frequent them. Awareness of RMT as a threat is not as universal as you might think.

Additionally, "microtransaction" games have been drilling into our heads for many years the concept of long grinds to get stuff for free, or paying real money to get stuff faster. For folks fresh off of Farmville, for whom FFXIV is their first MMO, I could easily see them being bewildered at the notion that paying real money for game currency is any kind of BAD thing. To them, the head-scratching comes from the fact that SE isn't selling it themselves, not that gil can be bought at all.

Yes, we all agreed to the ToS - but how many people actually read that in detail? It's a wall of text, just like the wall of text you get when you install any other game. Undoubtedly there are some folks here who've read through the whole thing in detail, but most probably skimmed it, or skipped it entirely. Violators should receive a warning first, and permanent action should only be taken if the violations persist. First-violation perma-bans are too likely to get folks who don't know any better caught up in the crossfire.

Nah. If SE started handing out perma bans for first time offenses to everyone who bought gil, a lot more people would be gone than you'd think. SE would lose a fair amount of money, the same people that buy gil are also more likely to purchase items from the cash shop, and the devs would have less to spend on creating content and maintaining the servers. Even if they did have 0 tolerance for it, RMT shouts would still exist because people would still buy gil. Too many people think they're invincible. "It'll never happen to me". Too many sites sell gil that will never be picked up or tracked by SE. That's just the reality of it. If it bothers you that much, filter out tells or something, idk. MMO gold/item selling is a multi million dollar industry, and it isn't going anywhere. I'm with you in your frustration, but perma banning people is not the answer. It has no positive outcome, only negative.

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Originally Posted by LineageRazor

Yes, we all agreed to the ToS - but how many people actually read that in detail? It's a wall of text, just like the wall of text you get when you install any other game. Undoubtedly there are some folks here who've read through the whole thing in detail, but most probably skimmed it, or skipped it entirely. Violators should receive a warning first, and permanent action should only be taken if the violations persist. First-violation perma-bans are too likely to get folks who don't know any better caught up in the crossfire.

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and that is an excuse to do anything and whatever ? ohh I didnt know....we have a say in my world...translated


Nobody should ignore laws.....and not knowing something that you are not supposed to ignore is not an excuse and an open bar for everything and anything

If you do nto read what you agree to...is solely on you and bare the consequences of you not reading

Mei

Why is everyone so outraged about people buying gil, but completely okay with the same people buying platinum wedding bands and selling them in PF for 3-4mil?

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Originally Posted by Akuryu

Why is everyone so outraged about people buying gil, but completely okay with the same people buying platinum wedding bands and selling them in PF for 3-4mil?

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There have been threads protesting this, actually.

But yeah I'm not really on board with the witch hunting attitude either.

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Originally Posted by Akuryu

Why is everyone so outraged about people buying gil, but completely okay with the same people buying platinum wedding bands and selling them in PF for 3-4mil?

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One is still getting money into SE, while exchanging gil from player to player.

The other is throwing money to a third party, then injecting possibly hacked gil into the market circulation.

You can't really buy your way through the game... well you can with run buying and all...but whats the damn point if you're not gonna enjoy the content? That's like paying to cap your very first character. But that doesn't mean the market should be destroyed via RMTs