Can I have my disease back?

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Originally Posted by Atreus

It has everything to do with skill. You're making it seem as if SMN is worthless right now. It's... really not.

Instant, 40% heavy that could be AoE as well was broken, very broken, so it was removed. It had little to do with Wolves' Den, but with PvP at large. Go ahead and have it brought back, but I wouldn't expect it to last long.

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What about ninjas aoe heavy? Ninjas used it flags and people still trampled through it. Mael ninjas would use it at choke points at the manors. How is one form of any AoE heavy perfectly fine but another completely broken?

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Originally Posted by Brianmj

Resistance builds up fast. That's why BLMs don't spam sleep over and over for he sake of it. Summoner wouldn't gain anything by casting it on any and all targets because when it's needed at a critical moment, the target will just resist. Disease being tied to our main source of damage is more of a problem than a benefit. Thankfully Disease can't be Baned so there's that. If a BLM needs someone to be heavier they have the tool to do so; So does WHM. Maybe if the disease could only be applied by Miasma 2...

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I actually get slept all the time though. The common complaint I get from blms is that their party always breaks their sleep. I think you're sort of underestimating and overestimating the usefulness of heavy at the same time. It is actually very hard to find a situation where it isn't useful since that would require a situation where the target will want to remain still while being attacked. No melee is gonna want to be standing still when they have to chase a moving target, no target will want to stand still when they are being chased. I play whm all the time in pvp and spam blizzard II and fluid aura; bind resistance is building just as fast, but it hardly matters when it buys you enough time to win the fight.


And I fail to see a moment where heavy will be critical enough for it to out shine stun, at least not a practical one. I guess if you get into a 2v2 with one caster and healer on both sides and they pop equinimity while healing or casting while getting hit with miasma every time the dot falls off (the dot itself doesn't suffer from resistance so you don't actually have to cast it all that often if you don't want to apply heavy, so that's a lot of time between casts) and while also having ifrit stun at every opportunity and casting tri-disaster just for kicks and having some melee teammates coming to help out and said teammates have recently spent their weapon throw, then I suppose the healer can run away without worry of getting their sprint away removed, getting stunned by a gap closer or being bound in place long enough for everyone to catch up.

The same summoner I play with is the top dps in secure 90% of our matches. Again just LTP bra. Summoner does NOT need help in PvP.

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Originally Posted by DividedSky

The same summoner I play with is the top dps in secure 90% of our matches. Again just LTP bra. Summoner does NOT need help in PvP.

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You mean me, right? Cause I've been the top Summoner for most of 2.4 on Primal.

I dunno I'm on my phone I cant see character names. Is that you panama? If it is then you know for a fact you don't need extra help in PvP if you want something heavied just ask me. :p Edit: Ahhh, I can see your name now that I am on my PC. Brian Jones I see you a lot and you are very very good. You should probably know that you don't need a buff either as a summoner. As much as you play you should know that buffing summoner is not something square needs to be looking into right now.

I mean for god sakes man you at the top DPS in like every match!

sure you can have it back if I can get a purify on a 60 second timer.

First time on the forums in 2 months, and this is what I see.

Idonteven.jpg


40% instant aoe heavy that was spammable on the ranged class with the highest single target burst dmg while being pressured.

comparing that slow to Nins (a melee class) fixed aoe slow is absurd.

I think ill stop myself from going further as its basically a moot point considering the fact that this very thread even exists

For posteritys sake the SMN nerf wasnt a result of that thread, it was the general consensus of pvp'ers at the time coupled with the fact that double ranged tank healer was a thing and this games hit detection made it so SMN/SCH could kite melee indefinitely. The nerfs were the biggest step towards balancing the games most broken class.

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Originally Posted by Mutemutt

I actually get slept all the time though...

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I get slept a lot, too.Just most of the time, BLMs know not to spam it. There's a time when sleep is appropriate, and a time to let resistances wind down. If Square were to enable the effect from Disease in PvP, Summoner wouldn't have the luxury BLM has. Since Disease is tied to Miasma, heavy would be applied whether we wanted it to or not. And with that, resistance builds up. So when we really need it, it may or may not be available. What is it, the duration gets halved each time?

Melee already have to deal heavy most of the time. If a ninja hasn't used their AoE heavy in the flag ring something is wrong.

Heavy is not suppose to outshine stun. It should be an additional tool in Summoner's repertoire. Summoner's stun is very unreliable, because when it's needed, Ifrit will usually delay. If Ifrit is not attacking a target and you direct him to stun, he will auto-attack then stun. This is not what was wanted. Stun was wanted. This is a poor experience because the enemy could do anything between the auto attack and stun causing you to lose your chance for the enemy to be stunned. Commanding Ifrit isn't as responsive as commanding your characters. There are time where he will ignore your command and you lose your cooldown. Or if someone sleeps your target he will stop attacking and move away, either back to you or to someone else. There are quite a few nuances Summoners need to be aware of when commanding the pet. Stun from Summoner is just unreliable. The jobs only good form of crowd control is Tri-Disaster. I love Tri-Disaster, It's very good for ranged binding.

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Originally Posted by Mutemutt

I play whm all the time in pvp and spam blizzard II and fluid aura; bind resistance is building just as fast, but it hardly matters when it buys you enough time to win the fight.

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Please don't do this. When BLMs and SMNs and BRDs need something to be bound, the target will just resist. Just use once to save yourself or something. This is the same as PLDs disapproving of WHM Holy spam. They put stun to better use than we do. Tri-Disaster should not be cast "for kicks". Bind is very important, and should be used sparingly. In all the games that I've played, I rarely see BLMs spam the flag ring with Freeze despite how good of an idea it may seem at the time.

AoE instant cast heavy on GCD would be broken, period. If they put it back on Miasma I that would be reasonable, with the opportunity to Bane it out.

Spell interruption for everyone should be the way it is with Egis, not the other way around. Stun/Silence/Knockback/Critical is more than enough interruption.