Can I have my disease back?

[Brianmj]

A year ago a group of people claimed that Summoner was overpowered in Wolves' Den and they asked for a Nerf. A nerf in the Wolves' Den. Square obliged and took away the job's ability to battle raise, apply heavy, reduced Miasma's healing debuff, and if it is to be believed, the Egis ability to interrupt casting. I would like what was taken to be returned to the job. The nerfs for the job in Wolves' Den were never given consideration when 2.3 came about. We've never seen the job played to the fullest extent in Frontlines because of the nerfs. While I concede that the job may have been a problem 4v4 PvP, the impact any single job gets heavily marginalized in large scale battles. While triple raise ability may have been a problem in the Wolves Den, it's a frequent occurrence in Frontlines and does not seem to affect the outcome of any one play session. Disease - WHM & BLM have both retained their form of heavy while Arcanist lost theirs. How is this fair? Kiting is intrinsic to the job, and without heavy the job has lost a very important tool. Summoners survivability is poor compared to the other mages with only Swiftcast Tri-Disaster at our disposal and a stun that our Egi performs at his discretion. The job does not get any type of self casting shield and so will go down quicker than a BLM. Summoner is naked.

A Summoner's impact is less felt now compared to when FFXIV PvP first rolled out. Please consider giving back Summoner its tools. It would be much appreciated.

If anything, please give back the heavy from the two Miasmas.

Edit - Furthermore, please implement these changes only for Secure.

[DividedSky]

I hope this is a joke. My friend was in a slaughter match last night as summoner.... did 200k damage and went 19-1. Just ltp bra.

[Mutemutt]

It's worth noting that blm has to use blizzard I for heavy to last long enough to be useful, which drops their damage if they were in astral fire trying to kill someone and healers will mostly be busy healing. I don't have a blm so I don't know if casting blizzard for heavy is really worth it; I've probably only been hit by it a handful of times in hundreds of matches I've played. Miasma is tied to smn's main source of damage and so it will be cast whether it has a debuff attached to it or not. They wouldn't have to trade anything to cast a heavy, so it's not exactly the same situation as whm and blm.

Oh, and from what I understand, pets can still interrupt casts, it just requires them to land a critical hit.

[Brianmj]

snip

Resistance builds up fast. That's why BLMs don't spam sleep over and over for he sake of it. Summoner wouldn't gain anything by casting it on any and all targets because when it's needed at a critical moment, the target will just resist. Disease being tied to our main source of damage is more of a problem than a benefit. Thankfully Disease can't be Baned so there's that. If a BLM needs someone to be heavier they have the tool to do so; So does WHM. Maybe if the disease could only be applied by Miasma 2...

[Mutemutt]

Resistance builds up fast. That's why BLMs don't spam sleep over and over for he sake of it. Summoner wouldn't gain anything by casting it on any and all targets because when it's needed at a critical moment, the target will just resist. Disease being tied to our main source of damage is more of a problem than a benefit. Thankfully Disease can't be Baned so there's that. If a BLM needs someone to be heavier they have the tool to do so; So does WHM. Maybe if the disease could only be applied by Miasma 2...

I actually get slept all the time though. The common complaint I get from blms is that their party always breaks their sleep. I think you're sort of underestimating and overestimating the usefulness of heavy at the same time. It is actually very hard to find a situation where it isn't useful since that would require a situation where the target will want to remain still while being attacked. No melee is gonna want to be standing still when they have to chase a moving target, no target will want to stand still when they are being chased. I play whm all the time in pvp and spam blizzard II and fluid aura; bind resistance is building just as fast, but it hardly matters when it buys you enough time to win the fight.


And I fail to see a moment where heavy will be critical enough for it to out shine stun, at least not a practical one. I guess if you get into a 2v2 with one caster and healer on both sides and they pop equinimity while healing or casting while getting hit with miasma every time the dot falls off (the dot itself doesn't suffer from resistance so you don't actually have to cast it all that often if you don't want to apply heavy, so that's a lot of time between casts) and while also having ifrit stun at every opportunity and casting tri-disaster just for kicks and having some melee teammates coming to help out and said teammates have recently spent their weapon throw, then I suppose the healer can run away without worry of getting their sprint away removed, getting stunned by a gap closer or being bound in place long enough for everyone to catch up.

[Brianmj]

I hope this is a joke. My friend was in a slaughter match last night as summoner.... did 200k damage and went 19-1. Just ltp bra.

This has nothing to do with skill. It's just a request to give back the tools that were taken. Furthermore I'd like to see this done for Secure. Slaughter is too new, so no changes while people are are still trying to get a sense of things.

[Atreus]

This has nothing to do with skill. It's just a request to give back the tools that were taken. Furthermore I'd like to see this done for Secure. Slaughter is too new, so no changes while people are are still trying to get a sense of things.

It has everything to do with skill. You're making it seem as if SMN is worthless right now. It's... really not.

Instant, 40% heavy that could be AoE as well was broken, very broken, so it was removed. It had little to do with Wolves' Den, but with PvP at large. Go ahead and have it brought back, but I wouldn't expect it to last long.

[Brianmj]

It has everything to do with skill. You're making it seem as if SMN is worthless right now. It's... really not.

Instant, 40% heavy that could be AoE as well was broken, very broken, so it was removed. It had little to do with Wolves' Den, but with PvP at large. Go ahead and have it brought back, but I wouldn't expect it to last long.

First, I don't think Summoner is worthless. Second, it has everything to do with how Summoner performed in Wolves Den because that was the only PvP available when the Nerf was applied. We've never got to see how Summoner performs unnerfed in Frontlines. It's kind of like BLM's Swiftcast flare. We would have never known it to be a thing in 4v4 PvP, but it's a thing in large scale PvP and it needed to be nerfed. Same with cleric stance. We don't know if Disease would a problem in Frontlines because we were never given the chance to try it out. Let us try it out in Secure, if it's a problem, I agree, take it out again.

[Brianmj]

It has everything to do with skill. You're making it seem as if SMN is worthless right now. It's... really not.

Instant, 40% heavy that could be AoE as well was broken, very broken, so it was removed. It had little to do with Wolves' Den, but with PvP at large. Go ahead and have it brought back, but I wouldn't expect it to last long.

What about ninjas aoe heavy? Ninjas used it flags and people still trampled through it. Mael ninjas would use it at choke points at the manors. How is one form of any AoE heavy perfectly fine but another completely broken?

[CeveArthu]

What about ninjas aoe heavy? Ninjas used it flags and people still trampled through it. Mael ninjas would use it at choke points at the manors. How is one form of any AoE heavy perfectly fine but another completely broken?

Doton has a 20s cooldown and locks you out of other spells for the same time, is a static placed AoE on the ground and is easily visible (although people walk over it anyway, lol)

Miasma has a 2 seconds cast time, no cooldown, is mobile, also reduces healing recieved along with the heavy, then it can be spread to everyone around it at range

Miasma wasn't disabled because of the heavy, it was disabled because it does a crazy amount of stuff at range with no GCD, can be buffed with a GCD which also makes it spread to everyone around the target