Speed Running Is Getting Out of Hand

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Originally Posted by ThirdChild_ZKI

And no amount of High Allagan/Ironworks/Dreadwyrm gear can make up for more damage coming in vs casting times and healing potencies.

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Actually, that's exactly what higher ilvl gear does. It increases mitigation and allows for higher damage/healing output. While enemies may be stronger, we are stronger as well. Significantly so, if you're in augmented ironworks/dreadwyrm.

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Originally Posted by ThirdChild_ZKI

Big pulls just aren't as practical anymore

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Big pulls will always be practical because they will always be efficient. Look at the potency on your AoE abilities and begin to multiply that by an incrementing number. As you can see, most AoE abilities become worth using around 3 or more enemies. And it just so happens that most enemy packs are 3 or more enemies. If you are going to spam your AoE anyway...why not pull the whole zone? It's far more efficient. Gear permitting, of course.

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Originally Posted by Zaft

If you are going to spam your AoE anyway...why not pull the whole zone? It's far more efficient. Gear permitting, of course.

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Ah, but what if you include trash mobs that all have AoE's with DoTs (and unavoidable vulnerability down) and a 'Banish III'?

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Originally Posted by RyuDragnier

A lot of tanks I've seen in the roulettes for Expert dungeons do not pop ANY cooldowns (like noobs), which can be part of the problem, especially in Qarn where everything hits like a truck. I can cover this problem as SCH due to all my damage mitigation, but it cuts close at times. It's worse if it's a WHM healing and the tanks are not popping cooldowns, simply because there isn't enough damage mitigation to cover the damage being taken, and unless there is a lot of Divine Seal - Presence of Mind - Cure 2 spam from the WHM and enough DPS to burn things down, the tank is most likely going to fall.

The second their HP gets low, Hallowed Ground or Holmgang should be popped ASAP by the tank, because if not then they're going to die, and the rest of the party will follow. The healer cannot do all the work alone, the tanks have to help with cooldowns. If they don't, they're bad, period dot dot.

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This... so much this... I don't know what a lot of the DF tanks I've been seeing are thinking lately, but they seem allergic to any sort of defensive c/d. Hell, I had one tank that they only way I could keep them up was Cure II spam plus regen because the idiot was going full DPS on the mobs. Then of course when DPS start getting hit and you're busy hitting them with a Cure I to keep them up, and the Tank refuses to hit Hollowed/Holmgang when they hit triple digits on HP... *sigh*

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Originally Posted by Nestama

Ah, but what if you include trash mobs that all have AoE's with DoTs (and unavoidable vulnerability down) and a 'Banish III'?

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Focus target stun/silence (e.g. /ac "Blunt Arrow/Spirits Within/Shield Bash/etc" <f>) Banish 3s, AoE w/ dots are just handled with high DPS + Holy stun. A lot of things can be bruteforced so long as they can be stunned or silenced with high enough DPS.

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Originally Posted by ThirdChild_ZKI

I can't say it enough: when speed running became so popular, we were i90-100s running i55 content. Current expert dungeons are i80. Things. Hit. Back. At least now they do. And no amount of High Allagan/Ironworks/Dreadwyrm gear can make up for more damage coming in vs casting times and healing potencies. Big pulls just aren't as practical anymore when you consider those factors, and last I knew, wiping a lot - if at all - doesn't sound like it's part of the speed run description.

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I was doing big pulls in my fledgling PLD a month ago in a mixture of ilvl 90 and 110 items for expert roulette without any issues - it all comes down to cooldown usage and DPS composition. The gear discrepancy from FCoB (even unupgraded poetics) is bigger than 2.1's BCoB/Mythology gear so I have no idea where you got the idea that current expert dungeons aren't efficient anymore.

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Originally Posted by Deculture

I was doing big pulls in my fledgling PLD a month ago in a mixture of ilvl 90 and 110 items for expert roulette without any issues - it all comes down to cooldown usage and DPS composition. The gear discrepancy from FCoB (even unupgraded poetics) is bigger than 2.1's BCoB/Mythology gear so I have no idea where you got the idea that current expert dungeons aren't efficient anymore.

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The cooldown usage is the big one. If a tank doesn't use them, they won't live at all and a speed run ain't happening. You see it more and more nowadays so it's more on the lines that the playerbase is becoming less efficient, not the gear.

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Originally Posted by Deculture

Focus target stun/silence (e.g. /ac "Blunt Arrow/Spirits Within/Shield Bash/etc" <f>) Banish 3s

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You expect too much from DF. Any time I did PS in 2.3-2.4, BRDs/Tanks/DPS don't bother stunning Banish III (and that still hurts, just not as badly as it used to back in 2.1). As for Holy stun... what if the mobs can't be stunned? (the one with 'Banish III' can be stunned, of course)

90% of mobs in EX roulette dungeons can be stunned by holy. As long as you're first to stun anything you will stun the entire pack for several seconds on the first stun allowing time to fix heals and stuff then you can use it again and stun for 2-3 seconds before they start resisting it. I've hit 3 stuns on some mob packs though by that time everything will probably be almost dead anyway.

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Originally Posted by RyuDragnier

The cooldown usage is the big one. If a tank doesn't use them, they won't live at all and a speed run ain't happening. You see it more and more nowadays so it's more on the lines that the playerbase is becoming less efficient, not the gear.

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This, perhaps is more accurate than my original statement.

Man I can't wait for those solo dungeons. . .

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Originally Posted by MXMoondoggie

90% of mobs in EX roulette dungeons can be stunned by holy. As long as you're first to stun anything you will stun the entire pack for several seconds on the first stun allowing time to fix heals and stuff then you can use it again and stun for 2-3 seconds before they start resisting it. I've hit 3 stuns on some mob packs though by that time everything will probably be almost dead anyway.

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I said what if. Imagine 2.5 dungeon trash being immune to stun.

Unless they pull mobs to a boss, I can't think of a single possible pull in current experts I couldn't out heal (and dps with holy).

Maybe if its 2 single target dps it would be a problem, but it would be very rare.

This might just be a get good situation, or explain that you can't handle that many mobs and ask politely to pull less.