If DRG does in fact get a buff...

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Originally Posted by Verus

The DRGs worth their salt will rip aggro on pull 100% of the time and people will rage for an enmity buff. You can't expect a DRG to burn elusive jump on the pull because of aggro issues..

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This is total nonsense, DRG wont generate enough enmity to over take tank (even with potency buff) in the beginning due to time required to build burst dps. Low (or huge gap) tank ilvl gear might be the only reason that DRG is able to rip off aggro from tank.

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Originally Posted by Verus

In addition, it feels very ignorant to complain about most DRGs having bad damage when 90% or more of the player base are terrible at the class.

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Given the same up time and same Ilvl between DRG and MNK (Nvr raided with NIN before). We are around 40-50 dps below them. A good MNK will always be able to generate this DPS gap.

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Originally Posted by Verus

The DRGs worth their salt will rip aggro on pull 100% of the time and people will rage for an enmity buff. You can't expect a DRG to burn elusive jump on the pull because of aggro issues. The most DRG will need is a slight mdef buff or hp buff, 5% at most. DRG currently can push 500+ dps easily and in a raid situation with a NIN and Selene they can easily surpass 520 or more.

In addition, it feels very ignorant to complain about most DRGs having bad damage when 90% or more of the player base are terrible at the class.

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Then drg might need to have their burst ( which doesn't last long lol ) calmed a bit, and have their sustained dps upped. This worries me slightly tho, because burst on demand is a very useful thing to have.

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Originally Posted by Verus

In addition, it feels very ignorant to complain about most DRGs having bad damage when 90% or more of the player base are terrible at the class.

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I had this same mindset as you when i'm raiding in a single melee static party/PUG party that I stand as the highest DPS. I assume that other player is just complaining due to being bad at playing that class.
After raiding with a good MNK who performed equally well, having the same responsibility and having the same uptime but we're dealing 40-50 lesser dps, needing extra attention due to lower mdef and having NO utility to provide to the group except our little buff to bard. I've been playing as DRG since 2.0 clearing COB and SCOB (FCOB this week hopefully) even I kinda felt like its better to just replace a DRG with a MNK. They have higher DPS output, better Mantra, and Dragon Kick which outweighs any reason for having DRG

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Originally Posted by Verus

NIN and MNK do not have an initial burst like a DRG. We all know this. With a buff in attack potency it will make it easy for DRG to pull only at the beginning and potentially on add phases when they spawn.

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I'll agree I spoke without thinking when I said MNK, but you're saying NIN doesn't have an initial burst like DRG? REALLY?

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Originally Posted by Verus

A full Soldiery drg has way too much skill speed to be viable in a large number of fights. I've only found T6 savage so far to be effective for drg to have SS build. Crit is our main stat for i110.

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Even with a mixed pre-2.4 BiS Set the issue of having too much SS still remains. And as far as I know stat weights say that det is our main secondary stat.

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Originally Posted by Verus

As far as what everyone has been saying, yes, I should provide evidence. So tell me what would be the most effective fight to demonstrate dps. T8 with turning echo off? A video of a dummy parse? I'll work on making a video of something appropriate sometime tonite. However, I have not seen any proof of a mnk hitting 550+ in fights and it most likely isn't possible with i110 unless they have another mnk DK all the time.

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T8 with echo probably isn't very representative, so I'd say a dummy parse would serve best. As far as dummy parses are concerned, I've seen Monks and Ninja do 520 DPS in iLvl 110 with 115 weapon (remember, no melded stuff and no 120+ gear).

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Originally Posted by Verus

http://i.imgur.com/PpJ1XMV.png?1
Average parse of t10 I believe this was a 1% wipe or something but this was average among our attempts. Did clear by the end of the night. DPS could be higher for me but with charge rng it can fluctuate.

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I actually don't buy that "average" thing, as you've selected one specific encounter. If you wanted to show your average DPS you could as well have selected the all encounter. And your numbers are not actually in the realm of exceptionally high, as I've seen other DRGs post numbers of 450 DPS with iLvl 115 weapon, and those Dragoons weren't even the renowned names on these forums. So this parse doesn't really give me any reason to believe that you actually blow all other Dragoons out of the water.

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Originally Posted by Verus

http://i.imgur.com/PpJ1XMV.png?1
Average parse of t10 I believe this was a 1% wipe or something but this was average among our attempts. Did clear by the end of the night. DPS could be higher for me but with charge rng it can fluctuate.

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Considering how much HP Imdugud actually has and how much damage it took in that screenshot that was not a 1% wipe lol. Your 1% wipe was probably the 10:41 result which wasn't highlighted. On our attempts during progression my numbers were fairly close and I had no penta'd gear.

We can pull decent numbers but in comparison to a mnk/nin of equal skill/gear it's like night and day. In most pug content I can pull top dps easily but in the raid content where it matters the problem is glaring.

NIN burst is so close to DRG burst that when you couple their sustained damage and their burst vs drg the problem gets even worse.

Going with what Vodomir is saying DET is our goto stat. Our sustained output is problematic as is, even without looking at stat weights. We need all the sustained dps we can get since spike damage from crits is unreliable and the important crits are usually get life surged anyway.

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Originally Posted by Verus

The DRGs worth their salt will rip aggro on pull 100% of the time and people will rage for an enmity buff.

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I don't think you realize that it takes quite a while to do your whole initial burst rotation. A decent tank would have generated enough enmity during that time that even if you crit all your attacks, you still wouldn't rip aggro.

My drg friend actually never runs out of tp because I always goad him. My brd friend knows how to switch between his mp buff and tp buff. So deg and I r always constantly attacking. I like drg and prefer them over mnks.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I8DuslkCeUE

Just uploaded a video of what you all ask. With food buff and party buff only, this is what I was able to pull. A potion would make this higher and fights like t8 still potentially can burst higher with trick attack and selene buff at optimal times.

I ask for evidence in equivalent gear on a mnk because the good ones I know cap out at the same dps as me even with 2 i130 gear pcs.

For reference, 3 pcs of i110 crafted seem to add about 30 dps to drg and potions on cd a slight increase.

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Originally Posted by Verus

NIN and MNK do not have an initial burst like a DRG. We all know this. With a buff in attack potency it will make it easy for DRG to pull only at the beginning and potentially on add phases when they spawn.

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This right here actualy made me laugh, like NIN doesnt have initial burst? ive died dozens of time by attempting to do my burst right off the back. DRG needs a buff and you know it. NIN has taken their spot and any DRG who isn't blind already hopped on the NIN train because they know it is currently superior.