Ranger Proposal

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Originally Posted by Shurrikhan

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Haha, you read my mind on the note of adding a cast time. A few hours ago I was like, "Hmm, what if they had a stance that added cast time or more of a 'draw bow' time." But then, like you said, the Bloodletter mechanic would need altering because even with less mobility but higher damage it'd play just like BRD. If a stance was used that did this though it would have to be attractive enough to maintain it else people just wouldn't use it and would again just be playing like BRD but with new mechanics. My exact idea on adding cast times was to create a system where you would press the button once and it would start filling up a bar. You can press the button again to shoot the arrow at any time with no animation locking but the more you let it fill up (ie draw your bow tighter) it would deal more damage. You could still move while it filled up to dodge fight mechanics but it would drain the bar the longer you moved. I'm planning on changing Aim into the stance.

The idea for positional requirements stemmed from hunting. Gaining certain vantage points and getting benefits from them. But perhaps overall it's not that good of idea. Probably better suited for a Ninja type class to teleport in and out of melee range whatnot to make use of positional requirements.

I forgot the lore differences in Elezen and ancient Miqo'te archery. Would be neat to do something with this but I don't think I could make it work well. BRD's relic weapon is essentially a longbow but focuses on fast movements and all that. So then Ranger would have to focus on slow/tactical movements but with a shortbow. Just doesn't sound right to me.

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Originally Posted by MartaDemireux

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I forgot the lore differences in Elezen and ancient Miqo'te archery. Would be neat to do something with this but I don't think I could make it work well. BRD's relic weapon is essentially a longbow but focuses on fast movements and all that. So then Ranger would have to focus on slow/tactical movements but with a shortbow. Just doesn't sound right to me.

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To <snip>: Yeah, the 'draw' prep or channel on a Ranger-specific stance was pretty much the first thing I thought of when I heard that we might eventually get more second jobs from our original classes. I'm still not sure what form of this I'd favor, and tend to overcomplicate things horribly (of course, I don't see why one would take the time to master a class without the will to read fine print), but that's always been there in the job's idealization for me.

To the latter part: I wasn't saying that the necessarily need to use the shortbow. I was just pointing out that a Bard could at certain times (especially when the Primal bow was new) inch out a bit more dps by only getting enough accuracy to cap for back attacks, so in some ways the mad jumping and diving of keeping a position on an enemy was already part of Archer gameplay).

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By the way, I have some ideas written out finally, but it's long. I mean terribly long. And not quite complete. If you're interested in a read, I'll post it. Otherwise I'll refrain, for others' sanity.

I'll just post the basic ideas for now.

[Fore-changes: The direct damage of Venomous Bite and Windbite now benefit from both Disembowel and Foe, the DoT portion only from Foe, and Bloodletter only from Foe. This is a minor attempt to make us slightly less dependent on Dragoons, and slightly more able to buff ourselves or each other. I would like to see base damage increased slightly as necessary to bring the Disembowel-affected dps back up to where it was, and for the Foe bonus to be taken as gratis or buff.]

[Background: I'm rather still rather fond of the idea of each job embracing two stats potentially, though I will admit that the specialization (usually towards either burst or longevity) is hard to balance. Originally I planned for Ranger to use mana whenever it used magical attacks, either in proc-combination with Venom and Windbite or including the original application of the ability. This refers back to the use of Piety by Archers in version 1.x. ...Well, no more piety for anyone but healers, but I still wish to in some way make use of mana as a Ranger, since I would like Ballad to contribute something to the job when used by its counterpart, but I've yet to figure out how I would most like to see that play out.

I also originally intended for Ranger to also carry two traits: Grouping of Shots, which increases accuracy against a particular target (where excess accuracy is converted into critical strike chance, critical strike bonus, or determination, depending on concurrent effects or stance), and Repetition, which increases attack speed slightly and mana regeneration significantly, each increasing effect with recent shots made [in this sense determination growth causes the effect of Grouping of Shots to slowly ramp up indefinitely, while a single auto-crit to an enemy can quickly open it up to improved attacks]. However, there are no job traits in this game. Instead, we must fumble over tooltips to give even the slightest class depth with the "now does this in job C!" or the inclusion of trait-like qualities within long-winded toggleable abilities like Defiance.] Scratch that. I will attach an oversized tooltip to a stance ability. One stance gets one mechanic, other gets the other. They can be active simultaneously, but will drain with time due to that recency effect, and stacks gained in one will replace an equal number in the other.

Basic Idea: The Ranger plays in two different styles, basically 'Shortbow' and 'Longbow' (or 'Woodsman' / 'Hunter' and 'Marksman'), and a large part of mastering the job is in making use of the opportunities the two provide, especially unto the other. In the 'Longbow' style, Ranger faces many of the vulnerabilities of caster dps, some of its abilities becoming casted and others having an uncancellable movement slow for the duration of the (increasingly long) animation of its primary abilities, these effects increasing with stacks alongside the stance's beneficial effects. The 'Shortbow' stance inversely makes the Ranger increasingly mobile, sacrificing base damage for movement and attack speed. Both are useful and often necessary for maximizing dps, though the 'Shortbow' stance will only tend to increase dps when used opportunistically (putting aside situations where the job itself is capable of dodging while in 'Longbow' but the player is not, and therefore should not be sacrificing dps potential for mobility). Ranger adds a few support moves to the Archer repertoire, making it faintly supportive, but is generally a full dps, with damage approximately equable to that of casters.

The Ranger acts in a style between a proc- or charge-based class and a combo class. Whereas physical shots stand primarily as 'filler' for Bards, between DoTs, they make up the majority of the Ranger's concerns, primarily by building up chances or stats on a per-shot basis (varying with damage dealt, including critical damage) towards critical junctures. Venomous Bite and Windbite are here used less as a 'matter of course' and more as the openers for specific tactics or in capitalizing upon them. They also have auxiliary use, such as in debuffing enemies or in AoEs. (One combined use of Venomous Bite includes a disease debuff, while a combined use of Windbite includes the purging of a buff on the enemy; Venomous allows the ranger to deal the last tick of all DoTs' damage that were on the enemy to nearby enemies when it is killed by Mercy's End, and Windbite allows various attacks to gain different AoE effects when centered on the enemy affected with Windbite). Ranger has one auto-crit ability, Foeseeker (though it is not the most powerful of Ranger's abilities; due to its low potency, 125, raising the critical strike chance of a Heavy Shot following a Puncture or Bloodletter to cause it to critically strike is actually your largest nuke).

Generally the Ranger focuses on either breaking through defenses with built-up damage, where each proc helps ramp up damage further for a short time in longbow (Marksman) form, leading to very bursty play, or else preparing numerous high-crit-chance, low-damage abilities in the shortbow (Hunter) form that can be capitalized on with opportunistic strikes thereafter. Ranger uses Accuracy and the conversion of excess Accuracy a lot; but in Marksman aspect excess accuracy is considered from a threshold between front and flank in spite of position, and in Hunter aspect it is considered from your actual position.

P.S. Abilities I'm using: <Aspect/Stance>, Puncture (a linear AoE that pierces armor), Multi-nock (nock another arrow, spread the effect), Gloom Arrow (support-ish, combos for additional effects, causes Shroud (a debuff that blinds and reduced your enmity against the target), and Foeseeker (30 or 40-second CD auto-crit 125 potency ability with some comboing).

The change to Bloodletter, within Marksman:
while Marksman is active, River of Blood procs reduce Bloodletter's current remaining cooldown time by 5 seconds, produce a stack which increases Bloodletter's damage by 30% (stacking compoundingly) each stack, and allow Bloodletter to be used instantly at damage cost proportional to the time remaining until cooldown refresh. As stacks increase, Bloodletter gains a potential cast time. Each .75 seconds for which Bloodletter is cast / channeled consumes a stack, causing it to release at increased damage [animation will scale to match]. The maximum cast time is equal to .75 seconds x # of stacks. [It tends to look like the 1.x's Bloodletter's laser cannon.] it is the only channeled ability I have right now where increased time increases damage, the rest must meet a minimum time to fire at all, and therefore come to more risk with movement, which I honestly prefer.

Changes Made to OP:

Directional and distance positioning removed.
Aim: Changed from a special attack to Take Aim - a new stance which applies the Aim status and introduces a new mechanic: the Draw Meter. Upon use of certain attacks the Draw Meter will begin to increase. The more it increases the more powerful the attack will become. Moving will deplete the meter very quickly.
Sidewinder: Removed.
Rapid Fire: New buff which allows your Draw Meter to charge faster and prevents it from draining while moving.
Bloodletter: Changes into Animals which works with the Draw Meter to bring in a random animal to deal damage, inflict status effects or heal the user.

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Originally Posted by Shurrikhan

By the way, I have some ideas written out finally

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That's a neat idea! I like the idea of using VB/WB to combo with other things. If what you mean by channel is what I think it means then I think that might be a not very good thing. In my signature I have a link to my Geomancer idea. I originally had a channeled mechanic for GEO but after some talks in the thread the conclusion was that in a very dodge-heavy game like FFXIV a channeled ability is generally more of a hindrance than a boon. Yours sounds like a potentially quick channel depending on the amount of stacks you plan to be the average use and then of course the capped amount of stacks.

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Originally Posted by MartaDemireux

If what you mean by channel is what I think it means then I think that might be a not very good thing. In my signature I have a link to my Geomancer idea. I originally had a channeled mechanic for GEO but after some talks in the thread the conclusion was that in a very dodge-heavy game like FFXIV a channeled ability is generally more of a hindrance than a boon. Yours sounds like a potentially quick channel depending on the amount of stacks you plan to be the average use and then of course the capped amount of stacks.

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By 'channel' I basically just meant that the ability has dynamics that affect the total damage based on a variable cast time. You can choose to hold it down as much as you like, and break whenever you want in order to dodge, simply using fewer stacks. If anything, I might try to make it more punishing by wasting the remaining stacks, but as it stands, by only 'channel' ability listed is pretty movement-friendly. Heavy Shot and Puncture however, mechanics not listed above, will not be. They will either complete the cast or waste the progress, and maybe even a stack or whatnot with the attempt. In short, I want Ranger to feel that it needs its turret dps (at least a good portion of the time, while using 'Marksman' aspect), and should time things out to deal with the issue (rather than Bard 'non-issue') of movement.

I've reworked Bloodletter a bit, by the way, in order to make it less of a dps loss. (4 'stacks' for Hunter aspect would mean 4 more instances of 150 potency each, or 600 potency total plus the original Bloodletter, 750.) To keep potency from getting so high without further nerfing Bloodletter in Marksman aspect, I'll need to reduce the maximum stacks. I'll just be using 3 stacks as maximum, each stack reducing the CD by 6 seconds (two-fifths), increasing cast speed by 1 second, and increasing damage by 50 potency and 20% of new combined potency. 240, 348, 478. (Compared to Hunter's 300, 450, 600) This still runs the issue of potentially critting for some damn much though... About as much as a Flare crit when using every possible CD. (Under full CDs, a Heavy Shot can already hit for over 600, and this would be over 3 times that.) And it's still behind in dps, if the bonuses of the two aspects were to run the same. To try to round that out, I think I'll have Marksman provide no aspectual damage bonuses to Bloodletter, but Bloodletter can help with damage dealt on itself and other abilities through the <Grouping of Shots> mechanic. I'm still looking for Heavy Shot to actually be the general potential nuke of the Marksman aspect, with Bloodletter as an aside that fills in where Puncture's armor penetration fails and the Ranger would otherwise lose its roll / chaining spree / killing spree.