Am I being elitist? Honest question.

On a side note, can I ask how on earth you guys can keep an eye on what other players are doing during a fight? ^^;; Have you always been able to or does it come from experience. Most fights I can just about concentrate on my own skills and avoiding aoe's, and have no idea what skills other people are using. Maybe it's more of a White Mage issue to try and not stare at the health bars so much?

As an extremely casual player, the way you wrote it does not sound elitist at all. Hopefully the person noticed the change and will use it.

When giving someone advice, you are essentially telling them: "There is a more optimal way of doing X". When some people hear this, they go: "Ah, cool thanks, I didn't realize". These people are good players who just got better.

There are others however, who hear your advice and become defensive, "This is the way I play!"; "Don't tell me what to do!"; "It's a game you elitist!". These people will probably never learn or just don't care.

There is a bit of tact involved in not coming across as a douche while giving advice too, but generally if you're not throwing curse words in with your advice, you should be good. It is not elitist to see a mistake someone is making and to then try and correct it by offering tips.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Velo_Vandore

Maybe it's more of a White Mage issue to try and not stare at the health bars so much?

---

If anything, it should be even easier as a WHM because you have to be situationally aware at all times (health bars, buffs/debuffs, incoming AoEs, where is the tank, who is about to get hit by bad stuff for pre-cast heals, etc). It's not as easy if you're still learning a fight, but if you practice enough to know what is coming when, then you can spare glances for what the rest of the party is doing.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Velo_Vandore

...?

---

My ex-main on another server. I used to be a healer/sch so I had the view always zoomed and was able to see everything. I do the same with monk because avoiding plumes and seeing where bombs drop is a must. Since I'm now a melee - I noticed tunnel vision is terrible so I have to pull out camera as well.

But yeah the conversation hit points with the FC leader where he said I'm a new player, and I told he was wrong. I had experience from 1.0 on another character and had progressed to at least t8. Thus the term elitist branched from there I suppose. He said I was asking too much from new players. I told him, you don't need i100 to do a fight. These fights were downed pre-echo NP. I told him they could even be solo healed.

Later he asked to join my LS, I let him in because I don't want to turn people away with a silly reason as I simply, "Don't like them." (It would be childish on my end.) However I cannot be coy when he constantly challenges me in LS chat like he's trying to show off his bigger epeen. So yes that's why I made this forum. To understand better. =)

You've presented your perspective in a pretty favorable light. It would be hard for any reasonable person to suggest you did anything wrong in the situation you described. Anyone would have to agree that you were in the right... and that's what this thread seems to about rather than trying to get at the truth.

Stories have two sides and tone matters a lot. There's: "I've noticed you haven't been using Shadow Flare" and "WTF you no use Shadow Flare!"

That aside, some people have inner critics - that voice that says "Did I do something wrong here?" That could be you.

And some people have inner defenders - that voice that says "I didn't do anything wrong! It was the other person!" And that could be you also.

Either way, both things are signs of insecurity and I think that your posting about it on a forum is evidence that one of these two things is true. Consider a more balanced way of looking at things: You were well-meaning and, for whatever reason, the other person took it wrong, not necessarily because they're a stubborn jerk who refuses to learn. Perhaps the way you worded your advice put them on the defensive, or maybe they're insecure about their own play skills and their own inner defender was acting up.

At any rate, talking with them more about this seems like the way to go rather than asking others to judge a situation they can really only know one side of anyway. Ultimately it comes down to whether the other person's relationship matters to you. If it doesn't, just move on with your life. If it does, talk to them, let them know you're sorry if you came off a certain way (maybe they've been abused a lot by this community and their defenses were up), assure them that you just wanted to be helpful, etc.

And one last note, it's good to have those types of conversations 1-on-1. Maybe this was the problem with the first conversation also? I know I might be embarrassed if someone corrected my play in front of a group (especially if there were strangers in that group). Context is important. For that reason, I would wait to correct someone's play also. Trying to correct it right in a duty when frustration is mounting is bound to lead to misinterpretation.

That's not elitist. That's in so many ways telling the smn here's some ways you can get good as smn. anyone i've sucessfully run/farmed titan ex with back in 2.1 and myself wouldve said the same thing. If I saw a smn do that, that would tell me that their smn skills are still on story mode level and they've made little to no attempt to master their class. Why? 'Cause usually people figure out on Titan HM that garuda can stay outside of the ring. They also use shadow flare.

Edit: Read through the thread more. Whoa, the FC leader suggested that you need i100 to do titan o_O? lol I'm sorry I'm not as nice as you; I would've never let him in my LS after that lol.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Purrfectstorm

....

---

I do often question myself a lot - I hate being the bad guy in situations. But I also want the run to go smoother and people to progress. [But not to the point where we have to jump right away back into 2nd coil again.] I'll try to have a 1 on 1 conversation with X person. I've also emphasized in the LS many times that they are free to do extremes with each other and not always with me. But they wait for me all the time. >.<

I guess my relationship matters to this person because they are currently the head mafia of the server if you would get my drift. They merged with 3 other FCs. So I feel like having my name being slammed by the main FC leader is not ideal. Besides I've already been getting into some groups and people I hardly even know will ask me, "Hows that solo healer myth of yours coming along."

/sighs.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kuroyasha

That's not elitist. That's in so many ways telling the smn here's some ways you can get good as smn. anyone i've sucessfully run titan ex with back in 2.1 and myself wouldve said the same thing. If I saw a smn do that, that would tell me that their smn skills are still on story mode level and they've made little to no attempt to master their class. Why? 'Cause usually people figure out on Titan HM that garuda can stay outside of the ring. They also use shadow flare.

---

The persons knowledge / experience aside, would you like to be told you're "on story mode level"? Personally I'd rather choose a less insulting approach, since this players owes me nothing and has not intentionally done anything to upset or offend me. Positive encouragement is more effective than riddicule, but then there are some more interested in the spiteful satisfaction of putting others down rather than actually contributing their advice in an effective way.

EDIT: not implying anything about the situation in the original post, but rather Kuro's idea of fair play.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kuroyasha

That's not elitist. That's in so many ways telling the smn here's some ways you can get good as smn. anyone i've sucessfully run titan ex with back in 2.1 and myself wouldve said the same thing. If I saw a smn do that, that would tell me that their smn skills are still on story mode level and they've made little to no attempt to master their class. Why? 'Cause usually people figure out on Titan HM that garuda can stay outside of the ring. They also use shadow flare.

---

You're iimplying that people who've reached lvl 50 on Story Mode don't know to play and that skills at that level are irrelevant. You do know that right? :)

To the OP: Judging from the tone in your posts, I highly doubt you did anything wrong, as people have already mentioned, tone and be tactful is key. And keep teaching, because good teachers who are patient and helpful goes a long way. Anyone who wants to learn will pay attention and try.