Giants and Allagans

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Originally Posted by Myranda

It also doesn't sit well with me that if they were actual descendents, they would have devolved from the most technological civilization Eorzea had ever seen to simple brutes who whack at stuff with clubs still and speak like stereotypical cavemen.

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It worked for the Sleestaks in the Original Land of the Lost. I think its even a trope: Descendants of a highly advanced ancient civilization are cavemen due to ancient apocalypse.

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Originally Posted by Anonymoose

Now, that means that the gigantism shown by Acheron was probably part of his modifications. After all, the stairs in the Labyrinth of Ancients are for "normal" people. Surely Acheron wasn't the only monstrously modified man they left on auto-pilot in their fall. By the time the wandering races appeared in the by-then empty Eorzea, there could have been a few of them wandering around... Twelve of them, maybe. I bet the sight of THAT would have inspired some stories. Giant heroes that helped get the realm in order before disappearing... and over time, legends of heroes become legends of gods.

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I like to think that the Allag became so advanced and/or enlightened that they ascended to a higher plane of existence. Correct me if I'm wrong but Dalamund was of Allagan technology and, using the summoned power of the Twelve, the scions tried to trap Bahamut in a second Dalamund during the opening cinematic. This also explains the sudden disappearance of the Allag.

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Originally Posted by Anonymoose

But is that in line with Square Enix's inspiration of Ancient Greece? Twelve "Olympic" figures who seal primordial forces away to rule in their stead? And after the Titans were sealed away, the Olympians took hecatonchiers as slaves. Perhaps the Gigants weren't descendend from the Allag but from those that served them. Perhaps the Allag created them to be a slave race using early methods of the same modifications Acheron underwent, and they've been using the same slave traditions to separate Gigas/Giant/Hecatonchier ever since. The Gigas claim to be descendant of the Allag, but, if this nonsense I'm rambling is true, who's going to call them out on that bluff? I don't see any Allag around to challenge the claim.

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If it was possible to alter Archeon in such a way, could they not have created the Gigas of their own race? Perhaps they were prisoners and better served them laboring rather than rotting in a cell. The Gigas could also be their failed attempts at creating champions of Archeon's proportion or even deformed, mentally and physically, by their own power/technology, failing to ascend and instead descending.

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Originally Posted by DoctaruRavenbe

It worked for the Sleestaks in the Original Land of the Lost. I think its even a trope: Descendants of a highly advanced ancient civilization are cavemen due to ancient apocalypse.

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And that's why I never trust a dude in a tunic.

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Originally Posted by Enkidoh

Well, I don't think Acheron is really an accurate representation of what he once was in life, given the fact it was stated he was 'reborn', or rather 'rebuilt' after death to serve as a guardian of the tower.

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he probably was...but was he that massive in life, or was that due to modifications...or something more.

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And when you remember Nael was meant to be an Allagan descendent, and he (or she, the jury is still out on exactly what Nael's canonical gender really is!), was only an elezen of average height. Plus the Ultima Weapon was built by the Allag and the control cabin in it's head was barely big enough to hold Gaius, a mere hyur! So yeah, I disagree the giants/gigas are Allagans.

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from what i am aware, garleans all belong to the same race (garlean) nael's appearance as seen in turn 9 definitely does not have any elezen ears of the sort. i'm assuming that nael was an exceptionally tall garlean who simply takes a similar stance as elezen (probably by game design, they likely had to use the elezen default rig to make him that tall.)

there is also a very high chance that ultima weapon was refitted by the garlean empire to be able to seat a hyur-sized individual...in fact it probably is using a similar control setup to a magitek reaper, albeit with more buttons.

It seems that a lot of discussion about Nael in 2.2 comes from people who've only read half of the spoilers for some odd reason.

(So probably stop reading if you don't want the other half, I guess)

Alisaie seems to say flat out that the Coil Deus Darnus is a hastily built, erroneously projected copy housing the very last of Nael's essence.

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Originally Posted by Alisaie

Bahamut denied you death, and imprisoned what little was left of you in an aetherial shell resembling...what, I wonder? Images from your memory, perhaps?

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That's not necessarily implying that Nael was a woman, or even that he wasn't Elezen - only that this woman's image was strongly imprinted within his psyche. She was likely important to him, ever present in his thoughts; someone he dwelled on frequently and may even have thought about as his essence was dissipating. Even after the encounter and in the next quest, Alisaie uses the masculine pronoun in reference to Darnus. I'd believe that she was Bradamante herself before I'd believe she was an accurate representation of anything Nael van Darnus without stronger evidence than one of Bahamut's projections.

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Originally Posted by Urianger (to Legacies)

By your leave, I would speak first of the coil's late guardian, Nael van Darnus. Fear not. No lengthy history shall I give to thee of this man whom thou hast now defeated twice. Or man and maid, I should rather say, through Bahamut's queer oversight.

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Originally Posted by Alisaie

'Tis little wonder he was so loath to part with him. Why let a simple thing like death deprive one of so useful a pawn? ...Though we may accuse him of bungling van Darnus's resurrection, I daresay Bahamut was as content to have a handmaiden as a manservant.

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The Coil Copy of Louisoix isn't much better of a copy considering he worships Bahamut and agrees that Nael is a woman.

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Originally Posted by Louisoix

Foolish girl. How could the White Raven allow herself to be bested by such sniveling opponents? Listen well. We all exist at the pleasure of one divine will. And the word of Lord Bahamut is absolute! Scurry back into your holes, vermin. You have been granted this one reprieve. But should you be so foolish as to crawl into my lord's domain again, I will crush the life from you myself.

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Until the Hyur showed up in droves, the Elezen considered Eorzea a gift from the Twelve to their kind. That's why there was animosity between those two races; the Hyuran migratory waves were akin to an invasion and seizure of their Promised Land. This took place a thousand years ago (500 Sixth Astral Era), and the Miqo'te came in the Fifth Umbral Era. In the Third Astral, Elezen likely were the overwhelmingly dominant race (barring the idea that they were once diverse and only the Elezen stayed, for which there is nothing to suggest so far, or that they were not of the five races at all, which is a possibility brought up in this thread). If Nael was a descendant of the Allag, it makes sense he would be Elezen, too. Those two likelihoods fit together nicely in an Occam's Razor sense, and that's a lot of useful information to toss out the window based on "an aetherial shell resembling ... something from [Darnus'] memory, perhaps."