Game is in a desperate need of challenge.

Terrible RNG is still a thing. We've seen almost every allagan weapon drop twice now, but we still haven't seen a single WHM cane. Our poor healer, haha.

I don't want to be that guy, but I noticed that OP doesn't have any achievements for extremes or complete maps for coil.

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Originally Posted by Rakashu

Before any one complains or moans about how it isn't fair how some people can get stuff and others can't; get a grip. Real life is the exact same way, you put in the work, you have the motivation, and you get stuff done.

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People log into the game to have a break from real life, not to replicate it's issues. Did you even think before you wrote that sentence?

Oh and you must be a really lucky person to play only on the weekends and to have achieved all your goals in game (assuming they are not something like "get a relic for my only job", and are actually hard to achieve). For example: my wife has been doing coil for over 4 months and she has yet to see a pair a Allagan Breeches of Casting. I don't know how many Titan EX parties I had to run (only counting wins, I don't even want to remember fail parties) to get the earrings I was after.

So, again. To get the best things in here, you have to put dedication most of the time. Of course, some people will get lucky but that's in every game.

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Originally Posted by silentwindfr

the gears is not the reward... beat the challenge is the reward. gear is a means not a purpose, people tend to forget it thanks to some game. the gear is here for help to beat a boss.
a good example is twintania, you need to be full 90 for beat it. the stuff don't have special meaning outside allow you to try harder challenge.

RNG is a bxxxxx any game that rely heavily on RNG are a pain... some people can be really lucky and get the item they need directly. and some people can be freaking unlucky and never see this loot for years!

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You say that like it's a fact.
But many people like trophies, as a proof of the effort they have put towards something.

You find this concept everywhere really. Military medals, Sport trophies, etc.
It's kind of a thing in competitive environments, you see.
So i think the OP has a valid point.

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Originally Posted by TheUltimate3

Actually bringing up XI I have a question.

Based on what I've seen people say, XI had recently (if such a word can be used) changed their play style and now it's far more casual friendly and what have you. Is this a true assessment of the game as it is now?

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I quit playing long before the change, but I did play a solid 5 years (NA launch til end of '08) with minor breaks to play some other MMOs with friends but I was still on XI when not on those other MMOs.

XI has definitely changed to be extremely casual friendly. It still takes some grinding to get the best weapons in the game, but it's stupid easy compared to say, how Relic Weapons used to take years in order to obtain. Now you can get the best thing in days, you can level up to max level in days, maybe weeks at most, which is still a far cry from when it took me nearly a year to finally unlock and start leveling up the first Advanced Job I wanted to play in that game since I before I bought it (Dark Knight).

It took probably another year leveling it up to the max level (75 at the time). Getting max level was actually an achievement and people you knew in game cheered you on and congratulated you when they found out because it wasn't something you could just burn out in a few days or a few weeks even. No, it took months, several months even if you were getting powerleveled and speed leveling as fast as you could just to hit lvl 75.

I believe a great deal of players left after this change in play styles, sure they lost and then gained new players and probably have a steady baseline of players now. Nothing close to the number of players that were on during the period in which I played though, definitely.

One thing I can say about XI was that when you beat a hard boss fight it felt like a real victory and nearly every boss fight ended up being like this. Even making your way through a zone could be challenging, yet when you got to the destination with your party or alliance and completed the content everyone felt the same joy of completion and victory and 99 times out of 100 there wasn't even an actual reward (item/gear/weapon or even gil) other than that you beat it and progressed through the story. That simple thing was your reward and it was actually very rewarding. Nobody complained that they weren't handed some kind of uber weapon or armor for their troubles, we were happy to have progressed.

Sadly I doubt MMOs will ever go that way or feel that way again. Most people want instant gratification nowadays. That works for the moment, but then what after that? You're left wanting/needing to get more, more, and more without appreciating what you have or what you accomplished.

Added: Even when I was starting to get bored with XI, months before I actually quit it seemed a very difficult decision due to the time I invested in my character. I really didn't want to quit, but at the same time (due to some drama) things had happened and the game just wasn't the same for me anymore. I knew quite a lot of people that did stick with it though, some that still even play it after all the changes and expansions and updates. It's not the same game it was, not by a long shot and I at least feel it definitely went in the wrong direction when that direction was to make things a lot easier.

To be honest, if XI got updated with XIV grapics and went back to it's gameplay from 2008, I would totally hop back on it, make some new friends and enjoy the game all over again.

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Originally Posted by Ecks007

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Very detailed response. Much appreciated.

I asked because I have noticed in the past month the increase of "Add this thing from XI's glory days" when XI itself doesn't really do it anymore, at least as far as I could gather. Which led me to believe that since XI moved to more casual friendly, people want to add XI's more hardcore features to XIV.

I could very well be wrong, but that's what its starting to seem like to me.

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Originally Posted by TheUltimate3

people want to add XI's more hardcore features to XIV.

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It's more of wanting new takes to old systems and not just copying generic mmos. I.E Skillchains.

http://25.media.tumblr.com/d212cad2d...3c3o1_1280.jpg

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Originally Posted by TheUltimate3

Very detailed response. Much appreciated.

I asked because I have noticed in the past month the increase of "Add this thing from XI's glory days" when XI itself doesn't really do it anymore, at least as far as I could gather. Which led me to believe that since XI moved to more casual friendly, people want to add XI's more hardcore features to XIV.

I could very well be wrong, but that's what its starting to seem like to me.

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That is the general idea, yeah, whenever one of those threads pop up. It's typically because people do actually want that kind of challenge. Maybe not the camp X mob 100 times and still haven't gotten drop Y kind of "challenge". That I am kind of glad is done away with. But honestly, the zones in XI were alive and dangerous. You could never just go exploring without being fully prepared with the needed items to keep yourself safe from the wary eyes and ears of monsters that were more than happy to kill you if they noticed you, or without a group of your buddies willing to fight off said monsters with you. Boss fights were hard, but not impossible if you had the gear, skill and a strategy.

They also developed a genius way for different jobs to work together in a fight to combo 1 class's weaponskill with a second classes weaponskill to create a skillchain that generated added damage (and visual flare) to combat, in which even casters could participate with a well timed magic spell for even more added damage. This form of combat eventually became obsolete as the gear stats and player levels raised beyond 75 (long after I quit), but man what a system. It really was something special that hasn't even been close to replicated successfully in any other MMO. When Skillchains and Magic Bursts were the prime combination for adding extra damage on ...pretty much everything, combat was much more coordinated, no longer was it just a zerg fest for who could dish out the biggest numbers as fast and often as they could, no, dps players talked with each other chose a combo, and stuck with it until a new combination was available or a new combination was more preferable. Good times.

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Originally Posted by TheUltimate3

...Much appreciated...
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FFXI became far easier after the final Abyssea pack came out, and they've been adding more stuff that people would call "making it casual friendly". I mean they added home point warping among even more teleporting options, movement speed increase for all players, "Trust" companions to fight alongside you (like Prishe, Zeid, and Curilla), more efficient ways of leveling rather than just killing monsters (like grounds tomes in dungeons, where each time you complete a page it increases the exp the next time you do it until a certain cap).

I think the reason they made the game easier is in part to make new and returning players feel more welcome, and because the server populations took a massive hit in the weeks and months leading up to ARR. 1.5-2k players in non prime time hours became 500 last I heard. Not sure how it is now, butI hope it's better. I want to return to the game over the summer and try to beat the rest of Aht Urghan and whatnot =p

I would not say the game needs a challenge. The game has hard content already, much more then XI if you do not count AV.

What it needs is depth in its systems, long term goals, and content that last longer then 1-2 months.

The blm pic someone posted says it all. This game is just ultra shallow and it is not just the battle system it is every system we have. Complexity for the sake of complexity is bad, but no complexity is just as bad.

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Originally Posted by Xatsh

I would not say the game needs a challenge. The game has hard content already, much more then XI if you do not count AV.

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The type of hard content FFXIV feels cheap to me though. It's not fun hard rather than cheap hard if you understand what I mean. Yeah but I agree on the lack of depth.