Is anyone else bothered by the lack of incentive for mediocre players to improve?

I don't encounter people like that often... I was in a garuda ex training party last night, we stuck together until about 15 mins left on the fight and we were burnt out by then but we made a lot of progress.

You'll always get players wanting to be carried, but then you get people doing training parties because they genuinely want to improve.

Yenn, your words here show a condescending slant here, referring to the forum as a "cesspool" and claiming a sentence is "borderline retarded". I haven't done Coil yet, just unlocked it today and I'm itching to. i65 currently, if I remember right. So no, I don't exactly have a frame of reference. Calling that retarded however is rude and, again, condescending. The bigger point was to imagine being forced to run harder content with lesser gear because you haven't EARNED it through skill yet.

You want a reward? You beat Turn 1 and 2 with lower level gear. No nerfs, no Echo buffs. Before the "unskilled" i80+ players danced their way through it. Congrats. I beat Stone Vigil as a healer for the first time, in a Glacial Coat. With FC members who were intentionally making it harder for me (low gear, bards pulling, extreme kiting). And we did it, purely from being skilled. Where's my Allagan gear now? By your logic, I DESERVE it.

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Originally Posted by Deifact

I don't encounter people like that often... I was in a garuda ex training party last night, we stuck together until about 15 mins left on the fight and we were burnt out by then but we made a lot of progress.

You'll always get players wanting to be carried, but then you get people doing training parties because they genuinely want to improve.

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I was considering trying to assemble a training party for the sake of learning Turn 1/2 right away, but that's mostly me being impatient and not waiting for other FC members who were already there waiting on me beforehand. I like the idea though.

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Originally Posted by Yenn

Except this makes zero sense.
A better analogy would be you bench one ton and get a trophy for it, and then someone uses a crane to lift it and gets the same trophy.
The fact that the person with the crane was granted the same reward that you worked hard for, without putting in any effort, degrades the work you put towards the goal.

Yes, it's a video game with a 2.5 second GCD where you fight scripted AI bosses where 95% of players are failing at it and not improving at all. This is the entire problem.
I don't even want to guess at what percentage of players have downed Twintania, which became a trivial encounter after the Twister fixes.

And this is where someone comes in with 'hurrdurr the person with the crane did it smarter plz giv me free loot to help wipe on titan hm'

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Yeah, and my accomplishment still wouldn't be diminished in any way because someone got the same trophy. If I bench 2000 lbs then I did something awesome. I'm still going to feel pretty awesome, even if someone gets the same dumb trophy. I still accomplished that feat. I'm still a hulk level beast. That is why I feel good. Not because of the trophy I get afterward.

If you're playing this game so you can get your dumb trophy (video game clothing for your video game cat man...) and feel like a special snowflake afterward, then that's embarrassing. And that is exactly what this thread is about. You're complaining because you can't be special because people you feel are below you are able to get the same dumb trophies as you. Come on, man.

Like I said, don't worry about what other people have. If you are able to do things with lower ilvls and are good at the game, then why not just be proud of your own accomplishments? You did that stuff the hard way, or whatever, feel good about it. It doesn't matter at all if someone else has the same neato shorts or pretty necklace or whatever that you got from the same fight. Even if he did it the super easy way and stinks at the game or whatever. What really matters to you? Your accomplishments or the dumb gear you get? If it's your accomplishments then what other people have or do doesn't matter. If it's the dumb video game gear then...that's sad, bro.

I'm more bothered how people get so riled up over people who don't have the same skills as they do.

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Originally Posted by Miburo

Nope.

If I bench 1 ton and someone uses a crane to lift 1 ton that doesn't "degrade my sense of accomplishment" at all. In any way. Same concept applies here.

And besides, it's a video game with a 2.5 second GCD where you fight scripted AI bosses. You're already setting the bar extremely low if you're going to use this game to boost your self-esteem. Stop comparing yourself to others and just play the game, ffs. This stuff is embarrassing.

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I totally agree with you, why would you give a rat's ass how other players obtain their gear, if you have to boost your self-esteem by being "good" in a game I have bad news for you.

The problem you have is that your enjoyment is contingent upon others who aren't as "skilled" as you not reaping the same rewards. It's not so fun to you anymore because everyone can do it. I believe what you need to understand is that this is a personal problem that you have and need to work on. If you take a step back and look at the reality of the situation, these people have done you no wrong. They're doing nothing wrong at all. There is no rule that says everyone shouldn't be able to enjoy the rewards. Rather you are attempting to force your views upon them so you can look down on them and feel superior. I know it's not the way you want to put it, but this is what you want and are asking for. You can go on and on about it being about a sense of accomplishment... but when feeling accomplished requires being above others, well... I think you need to do some self-searching.

Ultimately, the point is that you should stop worrying so much about other people, and stop measuring your success by how far you stand above others. You shouldn't need to feel superior to feel accomplished. If you did it, if you had fun with it, you should feel good about it.

No.

This is the standard "If you can't climb this mountain before the bigger mountain is there, you can't have cake." mentality.

If you need someone to validate your accomplishment, you had no sense of accomplishment to begin with. The bigger mountain is still there even though the ski-lift is built on the smaller one. Go climb it. Enjoy it. Enjoy your fuzzy slippers of Lightning Step + 9.

I say don't worry about other people. Just focus on yourself. Also don't forget each person learns at their own pace, It's one thing if someone doesn't give a crap and are lazy verses on someone's learning speed.

You're all missing the point, which is that giving out free loot to bad players makes it impossible to identify skilled players, as you can in other games.

Guess how hard it is to replace someone for BC?
I have no way to know whether the Bard in i90 gear obtained it from whacking a loot pinata, or actually worked for it, without wasting time bringing them to Twintania.
Even then, in order to bring them to Twintania, I have to wait for them to clear Turn 1 to 4 with some random group. After that, it wastes my entire group's time if they suck, instead of just mine.