Turn 4 - Summoner Mana Question

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Originally Posted by xxalucard

How is it more DPS to do nothing while waiting for the GCD?

If I just used fester, then that means I can't fester again for 10 seconds. Ruin 1 ~ Ruin 2 ~ Energy Drain is more DPS than just Ruin 1 ~ Ruin 2. It's an extra attack man, and it's DURING the GCD downtime before you can use ruin 1 (or any spell) again.

Sure, it may not be that much DPS, but it IS more dps on whatever single target your attacking during a burst phase...especially if you can Aetherflow before that next fester is off CD again. Really don't know how you can say 3 attacks is less DPS than 2...

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Because you're wasting a charge on ED that could be used for Fester. Fester does more damage, so it results in more DPS.

It's more burst, yes, but it's never needed. Like, on anything. It's used for MP, and that's it. You're doing more now, less over time. So, less DPS.

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Originally Posted by xxalucard

Fights where the boss physically "jumps" out of the arena (twintania divebomb phase, titan phase jump, ifrit charges, garuda teleport) or you happen to get "imprisoned" (conflag / fireball, dreadknight stun, granite gaul), will lead to portions of the fight where you are gaining more MP because you physically cannot cast any spells on the boss for a certain amount of time. If you happen to aetherflow right before one of these sections, and then aetherflow again soon after, that's a huge MP gain where the amount of MP you have doesn't necessarily reflect the amount of DPS you're doing.

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It's still a net MP loss unless you use ED. You recover 2% of your MP every 3 seconds in combat, and you can't Aetherflow->Conflag->Aetherflow soon after, what are you talking about? Not even during Divebomb because you're DPSing the snakes.




Again, stop using ED when you don't need it. You only use it when you need MP. You shouldn't wait until you're bottomed out, but you shouldn't be using at more than 50% MP either. If you end any fight at more than ~20-30% mana, you're doing it wrong.

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Originally Posted by xxalucard

While this is correct in theory, it's wrong in reality depending on the boss fight and it's mechanics.

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It is always correct. It doesn't matter how you go about it but you should never be at full mp and you should always be almost empty at the end. If you ever sit at full mp then you're losing out on natural recovery which in turn is a net dps loss since mp directly translates into more damage opportunities. Even fights where you have down time to recover, you should account for it and balance accordingly.

There really should be no mana issue, if the bard ballads at a reasonable time which is generally for our group once the first dreadnaught dies and the 2 spinner rooks spawn. At that point the bard should mages with battle voice and top off mana pretty fast and during this phase the scholar goes cleric and helps burn. So it may not just be you, your dps could just be lacking a little making the fight longer thus burning mana which if is the case could have your scholar help with dots during the bug phases.

Ballad is a crutch. The healers in my group almost never ask for it on any of the fights (T5 included), unless something went terribly wrong. It's good to learn not to depend on it.

I stopped using Tri-disaster (well, typically throw out 1 maybe 2, then once any of them die I stop).

So energy drain is only a dps increase if you are bone dry on mana, or about to be.

So I would say at 20% or lower mana, start using solely energy drain instead of fester.

And also drop thunder from your rotation (except when you are going to contagion). This should result in an almost mana neutral position.

You don't always want to wait until you're out of mp to energy drain. Turn 4 for example requires a good amount of dps on the last few phases, so making sure you have the resources needed to put out as much damage as possible at that moment is important.

Dropping thunder in favor of spamming ruin won't save you mp. Assuming the target lives for the full duration of thunder, casting ruin three times vs casting thunder once and standing idle for 4-5 seconds yields about the same results (in damage dealt per time invested, and a 25 mp difference in thunder's favor), the latter also allowing you more mobility. So even if you're looking to save mp, thunder is still higher in priority than ruin.

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Originally Posted by pandabearcat

So energy drain is only a dps increase if you are bone dry on mana, or about to be.

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No, it's a DPS increase on a burst target no matter what % your mp is, when used in-between festers with aetherflow off cd.

I'm not talking about the overall fight where you can look at an inaccurate parser and see an overall insignificant dps loss. I'm talking about a burst target, that if you don't burst in time will wipe the run. Sure, most of the time a group can carry dps enough for it to not matter-- but occasionally it matters. I just try to optimize things that are important.

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And also drop thunder from your rotation (except when you are going to contagion). This should result in an almost mana neutral position.

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This is never necessary in any content, at all (Assuming your team is playing at the expected level of skill to pass the content). It's a DPS loss at any % of MP.

The irony of subtracting a major dps skill from your rotation because you are trying to do more dps by saving an aetherflow charge for a future fester (which, in turn, is the real cause of major MP loss.)

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Originally Posted by xxalucard

No, it's a DPS increase on a burst target no matter what % your mp is, when used in-between festers with aetherflow off cd.

I'm not talking about the overall fight where you can look at an inaccurate parser and see an overall insignificant dps loss. I'm talking about a burst target, that if you don't burst in time will wipe the run. Sure, most of the time a group can carry dps enough for it to not matter-- but occasionally it matters. I just try to optimize things that are important.

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Such a target does not exist, and wasting a charge on ED is making it harder for the next conflag/dreadnought, where then you might need it. You alternate Bane, and Bane+Fester. There's no room for ED.

And then you can't do it.


Never use ED unless you need the MP.

Period.

Sorry I'm not really sure what we're discussing anymore.

Someone said they have mana issues.

I posted ways to alleviate the mana issues.

Anyway you put it, thunder is by far our lowest efficiency spell (not counting Ruin II and Miasma II) unless you have contagion, therefore its the first spell you drop when you're running out of mp...?

Is there a problem here?

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Originally Posted by pandabearcat

Anyway you put it, thunder is by far our lowest efficiency spell (not counting Ruin II and Miasma II) unless you have contagion, therefore its the first spell you drop when you're running out of mp...?

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It's not if it can run the full course, as said above.

Thunder = 212 MP = 240 Potency
3x Ruin = 237 MP = 240 Potency