Yes. it won't be up all the time mind you, but it certainly helps.Quote:
Originally Posted by NoRyoKu
Also, as you progress, use flash more. I usually start with one per mob. It basically insures they stick to you. Toss a riot blade in there every so often if you want to top off MP.
shield lob is definitely the way to start. If people are not following the kill order, flash, and cycle the rage of halone combo through all mobs and u should still be able to hold hate.
Gladiator tanking in dungeons losing enmity
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11-07-2013, 02:10 AMLord_Zlatan
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11-07-2013, 02:37 AMLeironProvoke generates +1 enmity, its useless for a pull.Quote:
Originally Posted by NoRyoKu
Halone combo is how you generate enmity on a target.
Flash is when they DPS AOE's everything down. -
11-07-2013, 02:48 AMLord_ZlatanNot necessarily true.Quote:
Originally Posted by Leiron
Flash is useful in all situations, not just when DPS are AoE-ing. A mob that has low enmity on you will attack a healer if they heal. Healing generates as much enmity as the amount they heal for. If you are doing 0 damage and/or not doing anything else to generate enmity on it, it will attack something else besides u.
Flash will allow you to maintain hate on everything.
BTW, im not trying to lecture you. You are the level 50 and i but a lowly 46. Just wanted to give the OP some more perspective so that they have more information for various situations. -
11-07-2013, 02:56 AMglen7187I used to think this too. But in some situations, a Provoke pull will work because Provoke has more range than Shield Lob does. For example, in Dzamael Darkhold after the first boss, you go across the bridge and to the right, I like to try to pull the giant frogs that patrol the ramp. If they are below me over the edge, my Shield Lob can't reach them, but I can pull them with Provoke.Quote:
Originally Posted by Leiron
Again this is just preference because there's no need to pull the frogs this way. You can always wait for them to come up or just kill the trash mobs at the top and work your way down to them.
So SOMETIMES you may want to pull with Provoke if you NEED the extra range. If not, use Shield Lob for sure. -
11-07-2013, 03:01 AMLeiron
Provoke is nice for the extra range, but it does NOT generate anything more than Highest person on the threat list +1.
Unles they ninja fixed something, it hasn't changed. -
11-07-2013, 03:06 AMKitruThe only times that you should be using Flash are when there are a massive number of enemies that your DPS buddies are AoEing down (the beetle packs in WP or speed runs that grab numerous groups at a time) or right at the start of the fight because, even with 3 targets, it doesn't have the enmity per GCD even with 3 targets to justify it. It takes in excess of 4-5 targets for Flash to overwhelm your ST rotation on mean enmity per GCD. If your DPS are not being complete idiots, they should be focusing upon your explicitly designated focus target. As such, all you need to do on the other targets is keep enmity off of the healer. The best way to do this is with *target swapping* (it also happens to be the best way to keep enmity on targets that your DPS are split on).Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord_Zlatan
For a group of 3, Lob the focus target, Flash 1-2 times when the group up, throw a Halone on the focus target and then start doing this: Fast Blade on non-focus 1, Savage Blade on non-focus 2, Rage of Halone on focus, Fast Blade on non-focus 2, Savage Blade on non-focus 1, Rage of Halone on focus, repeat.
For a group of 2, Lob the focus target, Flash once, and then start doing this: Fast Blade on focus, Savage Blade on non-focus, Rage of Halone on focus, repeat.
Flash is not an efficient enmity generator without a buttload of targets; it's only useful at the very beginning so as to keep aggro off of the healer while you establish effective enmity cushions with your single target attacks. One of the most important skills for a tank to learn is target swapping because, without it, they're pretty much *never* going to maintain enmity on more than 1 target at a time. -
11-07-2013, 03:13 AMLord_ZlatanNo ninja fix. Still does the same. I like to use provoke on a pull if i want to pull a patroller (Stone Vigil comes to mind) but thats about it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Leiron
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11-07-2013, 03:30 AMglen7187You are correct. It only does Highest person +1 so if you pull with it you're going to want to get hate on all mobs immediately. Especially since many DPS only wait for you to pull, they don't like to wait until you get some hate before attacking.Quote:
Originally Posted by Leiron
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11-07-2013, 02:27 PMsaber_altercoming back.Quote:
Originally Posted by NoRyoKu
yes. i have it macroed in with my fast blade skill. the initial damage boost helps a lot with big pulls.
on the topic of provoke:
if your going to provoke, it should and must always be followed up with a shield lob or a comboed rage of halone. that includes if it is used as a longer range pull skill.
..and multi target tanking:
It, once again, depends on who is in your party. the higher the average Ilvl of your dps' weapons: the more micro-managing, the more attention required, the more flash that is used. -
11-07-2013, 04:57 PMwarren-ragnarok
i will keep my recommendations simple,
start with shield lob follow with flash, then do rage of halone
flash spam is more when your pulling groups of mobs and aoeing them all down
if your dps attack the wrong mob, tell the whm to let them die
also, according to some number crunches, doing the full rage of halone combo, your rage of halone will do damage x5 for total enmity, (x10 with shield oath) and flash will do ~550 enmity (1110 with shield oath) and your limited on mp, should only use flash enough to keep hate off your whm
this link here shows a rough estimate on enmity generated per ability and multiplies for them to give you a better idea and may help you tweak your tanking style with ideas you can come up with as well, im not sure if its 100% spot on, but seems fairly accurate
http://valk.dancing-mad.com/?page_id=231