Determination seems like a redundant and unnecessary stat

On second thought, let's NOT put points into Determination. 'Tis a silly stat. (it's only a model)

Some games use those secondary stats to be more of a direct impact than how base stats work. For example, having a cap on stats. If a cap on MND/STR/whatever is reached, that's where the secondary stat comes in. It may not have additional attributes to it (like DEX increases dmg (for ARC) AND increases crit), but it does affect your performance in a direct way. Another example would be differently scaled multipliers, as some others have indicated.

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Originally Posted by Naunet

I suppose the argument could be made that we need both because they scale differently, yea.

Though truth be told, in response to a point you made earlier in your post, I really don't find the different +potency stats (mnd, str, dex, int) all that engaging. They all do exactly the same thing conceptually, with the distinction they supposedly bring already handled by the disciple/class/job restrictions on gear. You're not going to ever see a WHM wearing +STR gear not because they're actively choosing to avoid STR on their gear but because it's completely unavailable to them. You might call out the attribute points we get as a moment of choice, but... it's not and I really wish Squeenix had designed something more game changing than just "yay spend points in your main stat!"

So yea, in that case, I'm all for rolling mind, strength, dexterity, and intelligence into a single stat and cutting some of the unnecessary stat bloat. Ideally Squeenix would replace it with compelling choices to make regarding modifications to abilities.

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Not really sure what you would realistically consider them doing on revolutionizing stats. The only things that came to mind as to what you meant were to either combine everyone's separated stats into one singular stat that everyone would need (i.e. an "output" stat) or to create stats that directly affect only specific abilities/spells. That second one being WAY too complex and pretty much useless. If that were what you intended, have you ever played FFXI? All the gear swapping would pretty much be increased to everything you did, rather than 90% of it lol. Although that system wouldn't work in general given we can't gear swap mid-fight lol.

it's split up so u dont get to much of other stats benefits stacked from those main stats. I.e. if u get dex u also get parry and so on and so forth. So to mitigate this, they split up dmg into another column. I dont see the issue. Also, how does it take up a stat slot? It doesn't take up anything. Its a stat. They can make a piece of gear with 10 stat slots if they wanted. It's not using up anything.

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Originally Posted by Welsper59

Not really sure what you would realistically consider them doing on revolutionizing stats. The only things that came to mind as to what you meant were to either combine everyone's separated stats into one singular stat that everyone would need (i.e. an "output" stat) or to create stats that directly affect only specific abilities/spells.

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I've never played XI, so I'm not sure exactly what you're referring to but I think I get the gist enough to say that's not exactly what I was implying. I hesitated to mention it because of the stigma associated with A Particular MMO, but I would love to see the attribute points replaced with something similar to WildStar's milestone system or WoW's current incarnation of "talents", where they've done away with the boring "increase damage/healing by x amount" and replaced it with actual meaningful decisions that significantly impact how you play your character based on what you choose. It wouldn't require gear swapping at all (which isn't something that sounds particularly fun - but swapping out "milestones" or "talents" on a fight by fight basis? Yes!)

I think my last post might've gotten confusing, as I got ahead of myself and starting merging the two ideas of "combining all throughput stats into one" and "replacing the attribute point system" when I shouldn't have, so sorry about that. xD

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Originally Posted by Naunet

I've never played XI, so I'm not sure exactly what you're referring to but I think I get the gist enough to say that's not exactly what I was implying. I hesitated to mention it because of the stigma associated with A Particular MMO, but I would love to see the attribute points replaced with something similar to WildStar's milestone system or WoW's current incarnation of "talents", where they've done away with the boring "increase damage/healing by x amount" and replaced it with actual meaningful decisions that significantly impact how you play your character based on what you choose. It wouldn't require gear swapping at all (which isn't something that sounds particularly fun - but swapping out "milestones" or "talents" on a fight by fight basis? Yes!)

I think my last post might've gotten confusing, as I got ahead of myself and starting merging the two ideas of "combining all throughput stats into one" and "replacing the attribute point system" when I shouldn't have, so sorry about that. xD

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Ooohhh that's what you meant. Got ya. A talent system (similar in use to the current WoW one) would be a bit interesting in practice. Unfortunately, people will either complain about it being necessary to "waste time" always switching talents when they hit a wall that "requires" it. Or they'll complain that it's "pointless" to have so many choices when there's always an "ideal" build. That's always been one complaint in WoW, and technically even a complaint here (with the distribution of attribute points).

I'd be down for a talent option like that, as it'd provide a small bit of involvement, but I can't blame SE for not finding it worthwhile to do. People will complain either way, and it just requires a lot of time to plan/balance/create/implement, when they probably have a long-term plan they're eager to work on and have finished.

About the multiplier comment, I can see that being the case. The basic stats like str for example helps increase your base damage modified by weapon damage, and overall damage modified by determination. This would work with any stat really.

Reasoning is the fact that determination down seems to affect numbers a lot, but I'm not a theorycrafter so meh.

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So yea, in that case, I'm all for rolling mind, strength, dexterity, and intelligence into a single stat and cutting some of the unnecessary stat bloat. Ideally Squeenix would replace it with compelling choices to make regarding modifications to abilities.

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That's silly. yeah, instead of having strength, mind, dexterity, etc. that actually represent various characeristics of our character, lets just roll it all into one and call it "stat." All gear just has +X "stat" and nothing else on it. Easy to tell whats stronger and weaker, there's only one problem. From both a roleplaying and gameplay perspective, it's boring as hell. People have been craving more variation in stats, not less.