Maybe it's just lag!

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The requirements are there for a reason, but as I can see, OP has an "adequate" PC. If he shouldn't be playing with his config, then the minimum requirements must be changed.

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My PC does meet the minimum requirements. The game should playable on my end, and it is.

My PC does not meet the recommended spec. I shouldn't expect optimal performance... and I don't.

I don't think the problem is on SE's end or anything needs to be changed for that matter.

I don't know what that Titan fight video is supposed to prove. Whenever you got hit by weight you were clearly late to the dodge, but overall, you were dodging fine weren't you. The problem with blaming lag for dying is that people think it makes some kinda difference. It does not matter if you die in the fight because of lag, or because of unskillful play. When you're dead, you're dead all the same and not pulling your weight.

It does not mean someone is an idiot or a retard, however, it's just means they aren't useful in the fight. At least you can improve your skill but if you blame lag... there's usually little you can do to improve that in any reasonable time frame if router/client reset doesn't solve it.

I run on the lowest graphics and get around 10-15 fps on a good day.. It's awful getting out of aoe -_- but I know what I can and can't do.. I'm not a whitemage anymore (was fine up until stone vigil, just couldn't stay alive) and I don't do dungeons that are full of aoe in df, only with my LS because they don't get mad at me :P
Until I can afford a better pc (and mines not half bad..) I'd rather play knowing my limitations than not playing at all because me not dodging aoe makes people mad.
Normally if it's that bad I let people know it may be an issue ahead of time ^_^ most people don't seem to mind.

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Originally Posted by Vivik

I don't play this game to help people overcome their lack of understanding or their bad life choices. I play the game to have fun.

Not hold hands for people in a video game.

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Not a personal attack, but I find it so strange that people play a game that is designed to require working well with others, and then complain they don't play to deal with other people. It boggles my mind. If you want to not deal with other people... Don't play a social game. Otherwise you are fighting a constant battle and ensuring you will always be irritated by other people. Because you will keep running into people who aren't perfect.

Social life, and by extension social gaming, is going to always involve some level of compromise and helping other people. Be it your own inner circle, or merely acquaintances. If you still want to play, but can't deal with people outside of your own circle, then don't play with people outside of your own circle.

Otherwise it would be kind of like going to play some sport with random people in a community park, and then yelling and screaming at them because they aren't good enough/professional.

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Originally Posted by Vivik

There is a huge difference between playing with people and playing for people. I enjoy playing with the people in my LS and FC. They are two groups of very capable people that know what they are doing.

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I think you missed my point. But okay, so you can play well with people in your own FC. So why does it matter? Why insert yourself into this discussion at all? If you only play with people you can trust, then how does this affect you?

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Originally Posted by Vivik

I didn't miss your point. It's just simply invalid because not once did I say "I do not like playing with others in a MMO". I said "I do not like hand-holding". So lets not try and twist what I said into something it's not. Shall we?

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You inserted yourself into this discussion, stating that people who have any form of handicap are toxic to this community because you don't want to play with them. I didn't twist your words. By virtue of you inserting yourself into this discussion you twisted them yourself. If you aren't willing to play with these people, but you knowingly insert yourself into a situation where you will have to deal with them, you are your own problem. If on the other hand as you appear to be saying now, you don't play with these people at all, and they don't affect you personally, then your opinion is equally invalid because it has no bearing on your own personal game play.

If you put yourself in a random social setting with other people who are just in this to have fun, then we are back to the community park example. These people don't come to play professionally, and if they do have a handicap, they aren't the ones being toxic to the environment if you don't want to play with them.

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Originally Posted by Vivik

I'm sorry. I don't look at people who have a poor gaming machine as being handicapped. I see kids in wheelchairs as being handicapped. To say someone is handicapped because they have a bad PC is a pretty terrible choice of words.

When someone has a terrible setup it not only affects them, but the people they play with. So yes they do create a toxic environment for the people that get stuck with them. Bring someone that can't move out of AOE because of lag some time, or can't get cures off, or a stun off to anything that matters in the game without telling anyone in your group. Lets see how pissed they get.

I think you're mad because I have a valid point and I'm not afraid to say what I mean. You come across as a person that is not "personally" attacking someone yet that is exactly what you are doing. Assuming that I have no right to inject myself into a conversation that could very well effect me and other players some day is pretty egotistical.

Fact is. Some people want to enjoy the game without being bogged down having to deal with someones bullshit. There is nothing wrong with it. It's just not the way that you want to play.

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I am not attacking you, and I am sorry if it comes across that way, I am trying to point out where your argument falls apart, but you seem to not want to listen.

If the systems are meeting the minimum requirements, then the person is not at fault for playing the game, even if it means they have a handicap vs a better machine. I used that word intentionally because it is effectively accurate here. Many people with lesser machines do have a handicap to overcome, even if said machine is in the specs (and it almost always is). What your argument comes across as is a personal attack of anyone who doesn't have a machine that meets your personal standards because you can't be bothered helping them learn to overcome said issues. Fine you have the right to not play with them, I never said you didn't, in fact I said if you can't deal with them, then don't try. I am pointing out these people are going to be out there and they aren't in fact at fault: if SE says they should be able to play you have no right to say they shouldn't play at all, even if you do have the right to not play with them because you don't want to.

The core of your argument seems to be that they shouldn't be allowed to play because you might come across them. That is the problem here. (Shout is a different issue: you have the right to set the standards for what you want in a group, and if someone joins who doesn't meet those requirements then yes, they are at fault for falsely portraying themselves.)

If SE lets them play, then the judgement call isn't on you. It is however up to you to know they will be there, so if you don't want to play with them don't go where they will be.

I am not attacking your choice to not play with them, but your wording of stating that players SE intentionally specified are allowed to play, are toxic to the community because you might run into them.

So no, not mad at you at all, you just are missing my point. I brought up the sports example intentionally because I thought it the clearest example of where your statement falls apart. But you seem to ignore the example entirely...

I deal with people with heavy lag every day I play on a JP server. We figure out the fight, they learn the to predict and adapt, and move on. It is just a fact of life, especially since most English speakers I deal with are oceanic players in AU/NZ and have countrywide lag issues they have to learn to overcome independent of the machine they play. Your argument carried to the logical conclusion says that no oceanic player should play because their sub-par internet might inconvenience other players until they learn a fight well enough to adapt. There are many types of technical handicaps in a game like this: you have every right to not play with someone who has one. Attacking them for playing the game at all however is where the problem comes in.

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Originally Posted by Jonny_Tapas

http://www.twitch.tv/jonny_tapas/c/3128803

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Let me (hopefully) be the first to say, your really awesome. I like the fact that you took to the time to break past the limitations of your system by learning the boss in ways most players don't. I for one need to break my habit of watching the floor and look for boss choreographing. And this is coming from a person who likes PvE in dark souls lol

You could turn this into a POV guide for some players.

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Originally Posted by Rivienne

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There is a huge difference between playing with people and playing for people. I enjoy playing with the people in my LS and FC. They are two groups of very capable people that know what they are doing.

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Originally Posted by Reslin

The real problem is I have a high end gaming pc and it isn't that much different.

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Agree with this. I have a high end pc and if I run from the plumes right when they spawn I can sometimes make it out. I just do what Jonny does to assure that I get out.

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Originally Posted by Vivik

I think someone joining a group with a PC like yours is far more toxic to the community. Making other people pick up the slack because of your inability to avoid damage in a group setting is unfair to the people that get stuck with you in DF or shouts.

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You can't be serious.

Yeah well all I know is last night I blew my choco whistle and it took 20+ secs for my mount to appear, and it was more than once.
That and FATES just stopping dead like someone hit pause for up to 30 secs, then x12 fast forward to catch up.

Oh and 90k is still here :(

That my friend is crap netcode. No other game I currently have on my HDD all the way back to Vanguard has this issue right now..

Its doing my head in !!

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Originally Posted by Kitfox

Whenever you got hit by weight you were clearly late to the dodge, .

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What you don't see is the moment I push the button vs. the moment my character starts to move. Watching the entire video with the downtime included does at some point display the response time between:

-The time I push a button.
-The time you hear the sound effect.
-The time what is supposed to be displayed is actually displayed.

@Tokochan: I also have trouble on healer jobs... either that or I struggle enough with my own life, which makes me concerned about being responsible for others. Actually truth... I'm just bad at healer jobs :P but hey; know your limits right?

Yes among friends who understand my situation I struggle much less with content. My buddies know that when it's time for weight of the land I'm always going to run east pre-emptively and that is not a suggested escape route for them; my moving early creates a trap in that direction.