SMN - Why it is not a very interesting job and not a good upgrade from ACN

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Originally Posted by AmyNeudaiz

Lmfao wut? This got to be the worst balance suggestion posted on these forums bravo.

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its akiza. what did you expect? main thing that will always be said is "chicken nugget, change how they look, make it closer to how it was in non mmos, food looking egi, drain 2000 mp".

Could have been cool to have summons act like in FVII / FFVIII in that you don't keep them out constantly but build up a meter and then unleash a single attack by summoning them. To add more situations where summon skills would be useful, it could have been cool to have multiple levels to the meter, and the summon can be called with different weaker skills (with different effects) based on how many levels of the meter are built up. A weaker summon skill could be like multiple weak weight of the lands, and a maxed meter could actually summon the primal itself for a few seconds to do some mental attack.

Oh well, egi's are kinda cute looking I guess ;_;

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Originally Posted by AmyNeudaiz

Lmfao wut? This got to be the worst balance suggestion posted on these forums bravo.

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7s and 2,000 mp to summon Primals would be a massive hit to Summoner's personal damage considering they would run out of mp pretty quickly after that since they don't have a way to quickly regain mp.

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Originally Posted by Kaze3434

its akiza. what did you expect? main thing that will always be said is "chicken nugget, change how they look, make it closer to how it was in non mmos, food looking egi, drain 2000 mp".

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The Egis do look like food and they should have a humanoid size and resemble the primals.

Do you even know what you want anymore? You have gone back and forth on this subject at least a dozen times.

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Originally Posted by Akiza

7s and 2,000 mp to summon Primals would be a massive hit to Summoner's personal damage considering they would run out of mp pretty quickly after that since they don't have a way to quickly regain mp.

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O.o Aetherflow+Energy Drainx3 is about 1400 mp every minute. That's definitely not the best use of Aetherflow stacks at all, not even close. But if SMN wants mp, they pretty much have an endless supply.

I'm surprised this joke of a thread is still going on.

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Originally Posted by radzyne

I'm surprised this joke of a thread is still going on.

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It was somewhat reasonable. But then Akiza had to insert himself in with his outrageous "suggestions". Then it devolved into a troll thread. Such is the way of the internet.

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Originally Posted by Akiza

7s and 2,000 mp to summon Primals would be a massive hit to Summoner's personal damage considering they would run out of mp pretty quickly after that since they don't have a way to quickly regain mp.

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That's...................not how you balance a game.

Anyways Square has to do something to address the Egis since according to the E3 live stream comments a lot of players think the Summoner is fine but the Egis are stupid.

SE doesn't have to do anything about Egis because only an extremely low vocal minority dislikes them.

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Originally Posted by Akiza

Anyways Square has to do something to address the Egis since according to the E3 live stream comments a lot of players think the Summoner is fine but the Egis are stupid.

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HAS to do something because ONLY YOU have the issue?

You just said yourself a lot of players think the Summoner is fine.

Also please stop posting balance suggestions. Ive seen some bad ones, but yours take the cake as some of the worst.

The Summoner itself is fine the Egis suck

Chicken! Nuggets! Akiza! Chicken! Food!

We all get it, Egi isn't the all powerful summons of yore. Just be satisfied SMN have #1 DPS.

Summoner has the highest dps in theory but not in practice

That's because the egi has horrid AI, and even when you have them on obey they don't do well. Im so damn tired of my titan egi floating away after something that is across the map that I haven't had hate on in 5 minutes and having to tell it to stay 7 times cause it keeps ignoring my commands and still having it float away and just unsummon. Or going after something that I am not even fighting nor does it currently or ever have hate on me. The stupid thing literally goes for mobs that respawn after I kill them. They either need to overhaul the egi ai or give us more control. These pets are more a bane than a boon in many cases.

So many complaints about Egi's.
They're not as broken as so many people say.
You need to realize that you also have to work with the constraints of their AI and programming.

Garuda is always on obey and heel, I have a macro to do this shortly after her summon and will use it every now and then to get her to my side to avoid AOE and other dangers.
I leave Titan & Ifrit on Sic and to their own devices.

I never use Titan, even when Solo.
I only use Ifrit when I need to burn through mobs in CT as with Atomos and when farming for materials.

I solely use Garuda when I'm in dungeons.
She is a boon to all Summoners with her skills and base attacks.

It is best to work with what we have or hang up your Summoner Horn and choose another Job.

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Originally Posted by Akiza

Summoner has the highest dps in theory but not in practice

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We must be playing different SMNs then.

Well I remember there was mention to adjustments to summonings specifically ifrit but people completely missed the boat on asking questions about it as majority of people only cared about the BLM adjustment or new content. I think by design ifrit was suppose to be a walking additional dot but the vengeance like method of applying it was the issue, as the burn dot I don't think I have ever seen used even in dungeons 30-40 range. But you know if they added a self destruct on death burst of damage I imagine we would see ifrit's hang out with tanks dealing that vengeance damage before they lemming themselves for the sake of dps.

The Egis are pretty good, would be nice if they were stronger.

But cant complain after seeing a titan egi tank levi head lol, SMNS are OP.

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Originally Posted by Akiza

Summoner has the highest dps in theory but not in practice

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And you just lost whatever remaining shred of credibility you ever possessed here.

Akiza had lost all credibility since his second post.

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Originally Posted by Akiza

Summoner has the highest dps in theory but not in practice

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WRONG.

In theory Monk has the highest DPS, in reality its Summoner. Why? We can have an almost 100% uptime on the boss due to DoTs + Instants like fester and Ruin II. Lets not forget our Egi are actually amazing, nearly immune to damage and constantly on whatever target we want.

You think they suck because they only do a 1/4th of our damage? I say something thats constantly on whatever target we want, with the ability to improve our own damage in multiple ways is amazing.

Please stop. You dont know what you are talking about.

Akiza lost all credibility months ago when he started making these threads.

Here is the way I believe summoner should be. Mind you this is just my own opinion. Please keep a open and lets talk about this like mature or sub-mature human beings. (plz don't mind the grammar)

Egi Design:
The egi's should look more incomplete versions of the primals. Ifrit should look more like his primal self, but at the size of humans with a horn missing and his left arm half the size of his right (like how deathtrap looks in borderlands 2). TITAN should look like a cross between primal and the egi we have now with a height of the Roegadyn people. Garuda should be like the smaller version of herself she summons during the fight against her in hard mode, but at the height of the Miqo'te people.

Game play:
Here's what I believe. The way the summoner should fight is by their summon auto attacking and the player should be the summon's command/healer/buff giver. So no summon no dps this way player would have to keep watch on the summon at all times during fights. Each command attack uses mp and has a cast time also a cooldown as well, because your channeling the power of a primal through you to your summon.

Ifrit: like this version ifrit should be up close during the fight, but the only thing he would do is auto attack until you give him a command attack.

Ifrit command attacks:

Fire tempest: would be an aoe attack surrounding Ifrit.

Blaze trail: would be an attack that Irift charges at the enemy. This hits all enemies in a straight line.

Right Hook: would be an attack that hits the enemies in front of him.

Titan: would play like he does now a tank, but has a command attack ability to pull enemies from afar.

Titan command attack:

Earth split: this ability would pull the enemies in a straight line to Titan.

Earthquake: would be an aggro aoe that hits all enemies around titan.

Earth shield: would be a rock shield that protects Titan from 20% of damage from enemies.

Garuda: would play the range game, but stay at the left side of the summoner at all times. Plus do 10% less damage than Ifrit, because its safer than Ifrit.

Garuda command attack:

Wind pollen: summons one pollen to track and explode on impact doing damage to all around the enemy.

Razor wind: would be a wind blast that hits the target then leaves a debuff on them.

Down draft: should be a single target interruption attack.

Aetherflow
The way Aetherflow should work is allow the summoner to summon another egi into battle for a single ability then leave. But it can't be a egi that's already out; example, Ifrit can be in battle but you can only aetherflow summon garuda or titan. And mp would be a self replenishing passive.

Aetherflow abilities:

Ifrit ability: he will rapid strike a single target.

Garuda ability: she would make a tornado around a single target damaging him and around him.

Titan ability: he would summon three boulders in front of the summoner protecting them from damage.

Old abilities like bio 2 and etc would be replaced by the egi commands, but the summoner would still get to keep Rouse and Spur. Shadowflare would probably be scholar or Black Mage only. Scholar would probably be the only one to have bio, bio 2, and miasma. Enkindle would have a shorter cool down, and be a tri attack between all three summons.

I think we just found a second Azika...

http://25.media.tumblr.com/18901f251...ed24o1_500.gif

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Originally Posted by Danbo05

http://25.media.tumblr.com/18901f251...ed24o1_500.gif

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No idea why I laughed so much at this lol

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Originally Posted by Bigcat9715

The way Aetherflow should work is allow the summoner to summon another egi into battle for a single ability then leave.

Aetherflow abilities:
Ifrit ability: he will rapid strike a single target.
Garuda ability: she would make a tornado around a single target damaging him and around him.
Titan ability: he would summon three boulders in front of the summoner protecting them from damage.

Old abilities like bio 2 and etc would be replaced by the egi commands, but the summoner would still get to keep Rouse and Spur. Shadowflare would probably be scholar or Black Mage only. Scholar would probably be the only one to have bio, bio 2, and miasma. Enkindle would have a shorter cool down, and be a tri attack between all three summons.

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Relying entirely on your pets for any pet class is automatic bad design. Just no.

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Originally Posted by Dwill

Relying entirely on your pets for any pet class is automatic bad design. Just no.

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Well how would you change the way the summoner would work to make the class more entertaining?

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Originally Posted by Bigcat9715

Well how would you change the way the summoner would work to make the class more entertaining?

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By making it so that you summoned the actual primals, and you'd disappear and become your "pet" and control it's every movement. And SMN would have no DoTs, just big attacks that do big damage.

That's the answer that some would give, or along those lines.

Personally, I find it's current implementation entertaining and perfectly fine given the lore behind the Job (and that's what matters most).

What does need to be done, is a bit more balancing between the choice of egi, especially when more are added. That, and they need to be a little more sturdy or much more easily supported by the summoner themselves. Damage buffs are all well and good, but really, Spur should have been a defensive/healing type of ability rather than a second damage buff, I think. A little more flexibility is something that would make the class more interesting, because variety is always nice.

If I was to suggest something, though, I'd have liked something a little different to a 5min CD "signature" attack and something more along the lines of building up your egi to unleash that attack (and said attack actually doing something a little more than a bit of damage). Also more abilities on egi. 4 at lv50 is a little lacking, especially when one is simply a GCD type attack. It would make using a controller a lot more cumbersome, but adapting to it just takes time.

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Originally Posted by Sen_Terrechant

I think we just found a second Azika...

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yes finally

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Originally Posted by Bigcat9715

Well how would you change the way the summoner would work to make the class more entertaining?

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The only thing that needs to be done at this point is the balance between Egis instead of Garuda being the go-to 99% of the time. The rest is just fine and goes along with the lore of Eorzea. The real Primals are too powerful to be controlled by mere mortals and if you actually follow the story line cannot be summoned at will by only one person.

Sorry but that idea of using the real Primals as got to die. It will not happen.

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Originally Posted by Akiza

yes finally

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Once you have a single shred of clue about design and balance, your opinion on the class will matter. Until then, there could be hundreds like you, it wouldn't matter.

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Originally Posted by Dwill

The only thing that needs to be done at this point is the balance between Egis instead of Garuda being the go-to 99% of the time. The rest is just fine and goes along with the lore of Eorzea. The real Primals are too powerful to be controlled by mere mortals and if you actually follow the story line cannot be summoned at will by only one person.

Sorry but that idea of using the real Primals as got to die. It will not happen.

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Not true since right now in the story line the Summoner has just learned the art of summoning and that's why they can only summon the Egis and as the story line continues the Summoner will eventually master the art of summoning and be able to summon the Primals.

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Once you have a single shred of clue about design and balance, your opinion on the class will matter. Until then, there could be hundreds like you, it wouldn't matter.

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Doesn't explain the Egis ridiculous appearance, poor design and implementation. Again I'm not saying the Summoner itself is bad because I think they did a great job on the Summoner itself but my main complaint are with the Egis they simply suck on the appearance, design and implementation level.

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Originally Posted by Akiza

Doesn't explain the Egis ridiculous appearance, poor design and implementation. Again I'm not saying the Summoner itself is bad because I think they did a great job on the Summoner itself but my main complaint are with the Egis they simply suck on the appearance, design and implementation level.

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Appearance is subjective so it's not something Square Enix is going enact on, especially since I've got enough of one hand to count the amount of complaints from different persons about their appearance. The only thing design wise they need to fix with Egis is the absurd use of Garuda everywhere.

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Originally Posted by Akiza

Not true since right now in the story line the Summoner has just learned the art of summoning and that's why they can only summon the Egis and as the story line continues the Summoner will eventually master the art of summoning and be able to summon the Primals.

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Your little fantasy of controlling the primals have nothing to do with summoner story line whatsoever. I highly suggest you go rewatch the cutscene from the summoner story line and go reread the lore because it is quite apparent that you didn't pay attention whatsoever.

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Originally Posted by Themis

By making it so that you summoned the actual primals, and you'd disappear and become your "pet" and control it's every movement. And SMN would have no DoTs, just big attacks that do big damage.

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Thats not a bad idea, but there's no downside to it. Your character is basically unbeatable, because they disappear but the summon is on the field. Maybe if they make it so that the summoner is still there, but lifeless and you have to switch back and forth to keep your summoner safe and do damage.