[dev1008] About Jumping

its should be like ffXIII,you see a mark on the ground you open the menu and jump will apear.

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Originally Posted by Rawry

Um what can i say that I havn't already said? Ive stated why I want them to put implement a free jump feature. I think that being able to Jump up, climb over, scale or perhaps pole vault over a hill or obstacle would be much faster and or easier then having to walk 5 minutes around it. Ive also stated that to me being able to jump makes me feel less restricted not to mention it looks cool. Now if you don't agree with me perfectly fine. That your opinion. But to imply that i was/am the only one keeping this going is crap. :) This was never a debate for me.. I could care less what you guys think of my opinion. Sorry to say..but you guys arnt the Devs.

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I don't understand why people thing that character freedom is a bad thing. Oh right, because WoW has a jump feature that has to be why it's such a terrible idea. I find not being able to jump much more unrealistic then being able to jump, what's next running comes with a fatigue bar and after ten minutes of running I have to walk to rest of the way to my destination?

Seriously, there's alot of ways mentioned in this very topic that would add to the DEPTH to the game world with simple features such as jumping, even jumping barley a foot off the ground would be better then being rooted to the terrain.

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Originally Posted by Sehro

its should be like ffXIII,you see a mark on the ground you open the menu and jump will apear.

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Well due to the fact both of these games are on the same Engine, I'd say automatic jumping/climbing etc would do well. People cite immersion, which I do love in my games and nothing is more immersive than knowing your character is "smart enough" to overcome obstacles of that nature without needing to be told to -- platforming is the only other reason to really have it, ala Ys gameplay.

well im sure the devs might be thinking the same about you and for me issachar talked about a good reasoning behind this as well but i dont agree with him that it shouldn't be put in and if im wrong in what you said issachar then tell me please. i also want to be able to climb over or jump over a hill so that i dont have to walk over it but i dont want people to be able to use jump for anything but climbing over walls and thats where i agree with issachar over people maybe spam the jump. i see it with emote and this maybe same thing. people talk about doing it like zelda or ff tactics and i say yes to that. and i have been reading more threads into things that maybe are a cure for your feeling of restriction. they are talking about swimming and flying and stuff. think i would like swimming so gonna go post it now.

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Originally Posted by Jennestia

Well due to the fact both of these games are on the same Engine, I'd say automatic jumping/climbing etc would do well. People cite immersion, which I do love in my games and nothing is more immersive than knowing your character is "smart enough" to overcome obstacles of that nature without needing to be told to -- platforming is the only other reason to really have it, ala Ys gameplay.

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Kinda contradictory, at first you want your character limited to only jumping/climbing/interacting with the game world while being told to do so at certain points and certain points only(FFXIII "jump") and then you want to believe your character is smart enough to overcome challenges within the environment without being told, odd.

Yes, it's the same Crystal Tools as FFXIII doesn't mean that SE has to limit themselves based on what they did in the past with FFXIII, or hell even FFXI, give the players freedom! If you want to jump you should be able to if you don't want to don't, simple!

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Originally Posted by Dromox

Kinda contradictory, at first you want your character limited to only jumping/climbing/interacting with the game world while being told to do so at certain points and certain points only(FFXIII "jump") and then you want to believe your character is smart enough to overcome challenges within the environment without being told, odd.

Yes, it's the same Crystal Tools as FFXIII doesn't mean that SE has to limit themselves based on what they did in the past with FFXIII, or hell even FFXI, give the players freedom! If you want to jump you should be able to if you don't want to don't, simple!

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what about the ppl that dont wish to SEE jumping? All feet must stay on the ground!! always!!!!! :)

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Originally Posted by Rawry

what about the ppl that dont wish to SEE jumping? All feet must stay on the ground!! always!!!!! :)

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Just shut your eyes then and don't look at the screen. :o

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Originally Posted by Alexzander

well im sure the devs might be thinking the same about you and for me issachar talked about a good reasoning behind this as well but i dont agree with him that it shouldn't be put in and if im wrong in what you said issachar then tell me please. i also want to be able to climb over or jump over a hill so that i dont have to walk over it but i dont want people to be able to use jump for anything but climbing over walls and thats where i agree with issachar over people maybe spam the jump. i see it with emote and this maybe same thing. people talk about doing it like zelda or ff tactics and i say yes to that. and i have been reading more threads into things that maybe are a cure for your feeling of restriction. they are talking about swimming and flying and stuff. think i would like swimming so gonna go post it now.

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If the devs feel the same way.. that's cool. But some how I don't think that's the case as one of they main reasons they got the forums going was to get our opinions. :)

I disagree with Iss's reasoning as I've never seen it happen in any of the mmos I've played. did I ever say his opinion was irrelevant or that he didn't have the right to have one? Noooooope! :)

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Originally Posted by Dromox

Just shut your eyes then and don't look at the screen. :o

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Good idea! its like implementing your own ignore feature! I like it! :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by Dromox

Kinda contradictory, at first you want your character limited to only jumping/climbing/interacting with the game world while being told to do so at certain points and certain points only(FFXIII "jump") and then you want to believe your character is smart enough to overcome challenges within the environment without being told, odd.

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It's not contradictory -- you're just reading far too much into it because there's nothing contradictory about saying your character is smart enough to get around obstacles automatically because the player isn't telling the character to, the A.I programming is telling it to which is what automation means.

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Originally Posted by Jennestia

It's not contradictory -- you're just reading far too much into it because there's nothing contradictory about saying your character is smart enough to get around obstacles automatically because the player isn't telling the character to, the A.I programming is telling it to which is what automation means.

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I realize not everyone speaks English as their first language so I am going to have to ask you what exactly you mean. To me, it seems like you are saying that my character is smart(or isn't, not sure) enough to get around obstacles because the game tells it to, automatically, without the need of player input. I for one, like to be interactive with my game worlds not a spectator.

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Originally Posted by Alexzander

well im sure the devs might be thinking the same about you and for me issachar talked about a good reasoning behind this as well but i dont agree with him that it shouldn't be put in and if im wrong in what you said issachar then tell me please. i also want to be able to climb over or jump over a hill so that i dont have to walk over it but i dont want people to be able to use jump for anything but climbing over walls and thats where i agree with issachar over people maybe spam the jump. i see it with emote and this maybe same thing. people talk about doing it like zelda or ff tactics and i say yes to that. and i have been reading more threads into things that maybe are a cure for your feeling of restriction. they are talking about swimming and flying and stuff. think i would like swimming so gonna go post it now.

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I'm in favor of jump, but not the kind that you can use anywhere at anytime. Just one to get over obstancles and such in the game :P

Let me try and help clear this up. I think what Alexzander and Jennestia (Hey! I think I got a fan group now! lol) are basically saying that jump should be used as a simple automatic funtion when the need arises to jump. It's basically like the Auto-Attack from XI when Jennestia is talking about the A.I. By this I mean that even though your character is attacking, you're not giving direct commands other than to attack and/or disengage.

Now to just go a little more into her post and using that example I just said, what she means is that the A.I. will automatically jump when the need arises to jump. Hope this clears it up for you.

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Originally Posted by Kimahri

Let me try and help clear this up. I think what Alexzander and Jennestia (Hey! I think I got a fan group now! lol) are basically saying that jump should be used as a simple automatic funtion when the need arises to jump. It's basically like the Auto-Attack from XI when Jennestia is talking about the A.I. By this I mean that even though your character is attacking, you're not giving direct commands other than to attack and/or disengage.

Now to just go a little more into her post and using that example I just said, what she means is that the A.I. will automatically jump when the need arises to jump. Hope this clears it up for you.

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I guess her post does make more sense when explained like that. However, I would still like to control my own character, I don't really see why that's a bad thing. I would rather not have my character automatically jump up/down a cliff simply because I walked to closely to it and triggered that response in the game. Freedom!!

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Originally Posted by Dromox

I guess her post does make more sense when explained like that. However, I would still like to control my own character, I don't really see why that's a bad thing. I would rather not have my character automatically jump up/down a cliff simply because I walked to closely to it and triggered that response in the game. Freedom!!

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Haha! Well whoever posted earlier that you can excercise that jump action by hitting the menu button and clicking on the jump button. You know where you can click Aetheryte, Check, Invite, etc. How would that work out for you? That way it's still in there, you're able to do it manually in a sense, and it doesn't get in the way of others who don't want it implemented simply because it might be a minor annoyance?

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Originally Posted by Kimahri

Haha! Well whoever posted earlier that you can excercise that jump action by hitting the menu button and clicking on the jump button. You know where you can click Aetheryte, Check, Invite, etc. How would that work out for you? That way it's still in there, you're able to do it manually in a sense, and it doesn't get in the way of others who don't want it implemented simply because it might be a minor annoyance?

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Aetheryte, Check, Invite are completely different then jumping, swimming, flying etc. Walking up and putting out your hand and "touching" and Aetheryte seems to serve only an aesthetic function at best, check and invite and something you don't interact at all doing. However, being able to simply jump grands me access to having the OPTION, to over come this incline, to descend this cliff and doing all that on MY terms is infinitely better then being regulated by certain "checkpoints" for that action.

Explain to me how that would be a minor annoyance? Just because WoW has the same feature doesn't mean the game is going to descend to the same childish mindset, here I thought the FF players were a much more mature, refined MMO community and could handle something as simple as being able to untethered jumping. my mistake! Keep your feet on the ground friend, don't want to upset the people RP'ing in say with my jumping. :P

im annoyed by this thread. they should remove the forums. k thx.

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Originally Posted by Dromox

Aetheryte, Check, Invite are completely different then jumping, swimming, flying etc. Walking up and putting out your hand and "touching" and Aetheryte seems to serve only an aesthetic function at best, check and invite and something you don't interact at all doing. However, being able to simply jump grands me access to having the OPTION, to over come this incline, to descend this cliff and doing all that on MY terms is infinitely better then being regulated by certain "checkpoints" for that action.

Explain to me how that would be a minor annoyance? Just because WoW has the same feature doesn't mean the game is going to descend to the same childish mindset, here I thought the FF players were a much more mature, refined MMO community and could handle something as simple as being able to untethered jumping. my mistake! Keep your feet on the ground friend, don't want to upset the people RP'ing in say with my jumping. :P

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Hahaha! Well here's what I would mean as far as examples I could list.

As you know there are filters for letting me filter out all the junk I don't want to see in my chat board. Such as /emote. There will be no filter for when I see a guy/girl just jumping for no reason while waiting for Behest, Mission, Quest, Linkshell event, etc.

Secondly what I think would be a reason is that the Development Team has come around saying that they would later on down the road implement back into FFXIV PvP....Now if you've played Halo........You know for darn sure they're going to be hopping around like jack rabbits just to piss you off.

Mostly all in all I wouldn't have a problem with this being an annoyance, except for that PvP example. However I can see others having a problem with this as I tend to see a lot of people with impatience as they play this game. For example I was playing Behest and people wouldn't stop fighting so we could invite the last guy, so he got pissed and slapped on his 50 THM and decimated the rest of the Behest mobs....Then they were annoyed over him because they couldn't wait 3 seconds to invite him in the first place!.........

See what I mean? lol This list I'm sure could add a couple more reasons to why people wouldn't want it. I'm just listing those I know. Wouldn't you agree that it's slightly annoying?

watching someone jump does not = annoying.
ppl jumping around in pvp = smart... Not annoying to anyone whos good at pvp. I guess i can see why this would annoy the FF care bears tho. :D

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Originally Posted by Kimahri

Hahaha! Well here's what I would mean as far as examples I could list.

As you know there are filters for letting me filter out all the junk I don't want to see in my chat board. Such as /emote. There will be no filter for when I see a guy/girl just jumping for no reason while waiting for Behest, Mission, Quest, Linkshell event, etc.

Secondly what I think would be a reason is that the Development Team has come around saying that they would later on down the road implement back into FFXIV PvP....Now if you've played Halo........You know for darn sure they're going to be hopping around like jack rabbits just to piss you off.

Mostly all in all I wouldn't have a problem with this being an annoyance, except for that PvP example. However I can see others having a problem with this as I tend to see a lot of people with impatience as they play this game. For example I was playing Behest and people wouldn't stop fighting so we could invite the last guy, so he got pissed and slapped on his 50 THM and decimated the rest of the Behest mobs....Then they were annoyed over him because they couldn't wait 3 seconds to invite him in the first place!.........

See what I mean? lol This list I'm sure could add a couple more reasons to why people wouldn't want it. I'm just listing those I know. Wouldn't you agree that it's slightly annoying?

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I don't really follow, but by your example with the behest, honestly if you are going to throw a tantrum over something as simple as that you should really reevaluate so of your life choices and probably seek help. PvP really isn't the place to be jumping anyways, FFXIV isn't a FPS, FFXIV however is a fantasy MMO, and being fantasy should allow its players some freedoms! FFXIV: Fun, Freedom, XIV!!!

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Originally Posted by Dromox

I don't really follow, but by your example with the behest, honestly if you are going to throw a tantrum over something as simple as that you should really reevaluate so of your life choices and probably seek help. PvP really isn't the place to be jumping anyways, FFXIV isn't a FPS, FFXIV however is a fantasy MMO, and being fantasy should allow its players some freedoms! FFXIV: Fun, Freedom, XIV!!!

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I guess in a way you're right. To hell with it. Add the damn feature. However if I see twenty people jumping, I will kick your ***, Dromax. Hahaha!

I still wouldn't mind adding more features like this to add more sense of exploration though. Climbing mountains, swimming in the sea, and hell maybe even flying.

Edit: And even though jumping isn't the place when in PvP. I guarantee you people will jump around you while you're fighting. Oh well though....Never cared for PvP anyway!

I think jumping would be really cool. I agree with Rowyne on post #118 and have complete confidence that the ffxiv team would make it enjoyable for everyone.

Jumping would give the game a more free feeling imo. I have never played a game (wow included) where people just jumped like rabbits 24 7 all day like most of you people think is going to happen. Getting over small objects would be a nice feature then having to walk around every single little thing. On top of that if you dont want to "jump" then just dont simple as that. Problem solved now lets get this in the game.

I am in favor of jumping up and down on beds. Mom says she does it with all her friends from work all the time.

No jumping please... unless its used for some skank mithra thats asking for it.. :P

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Originally Posted by Kimahri

Let me try and help clear this up. I think what Alexzander and Jennestia (Hey! I think I got a fan group now! lol) are basically saying that jump should be used as a simple automatic funtion when the need arises to jump. It's basically like the Auto-Attack from XI when Jennestia is talking about the A.I. By this I mean that even though your character is attacking, you're not giving direct commands other than to attack and/or disengage.

Now to just go a little more into her post and using that example I just said, what she means is that the A.I. will automatically jump when the need arises to jump. Hope this clears it up for you.

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Yep pretty much this. My first language is Japanese, so I'm doing my best to explain in English.

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Originally Posted by Point_Zero

No jumping please... unless its used for some skank mithra thats asking for it.. :P

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Please don't try to call out Miqo'te because we are more developed than you midget lalafell. Please and thanks.

I don't see why could anyone be against an additional feature. However I DO agree jump is irrelevant and innecessary if it's only used as an /emote, if it's going to just be that I think it would be better that the dev team uses their time to fix other issues or add content (instanced pve! yay!).

But if "jump" itself is used as another action that can change the way our characters interact with the enemies and the world I think it's worth it. For example you could jump to avoid certain bosses attacks that travel through the ground, or to climb to a safe place while the boss does a huge aoe, etc.

I think it would be also interesting that certain classes could use jump better than others, ofc the Dragoon(if implemented) seems like the best class to do huge jumps to gain better position in the fight, or even landind using a skill that triggers once the character lands. But not only that, a gladiator or a marauder could be worse at jumping since they are equiped with heavy armor, or mages since they physical power tends to be low, while thief/ninja classes could use jump as another tool to move between enemies.

About ppl complaining it would ruin the atmosphere of the game, or the inmersion.. err you know if you go out to the street and try hard enough you can jump, even in RL! It seems pretty easy to understand that our characters SHOULD be able to do the same. You don't want to see ppl spaming it? it's easy, make it so jump uses stamina, like another skill, but only do that if rly jump will bring something to the PVE enviorenment, if not, it's just better to don't waste time on implementing another emote.

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Originally Posted by Lionheart

I won't mind a button-trigger action near certain points of the terrain... just not free jumping anywhere.

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i like the sound of that (’-’*) フフ

spam jumping in WoW annoyed me to no end

When it comes to jumping, i don't really need a dedicated button with which i can make my character jump. But, i do find it annoying that i can't jump off a small ledge and thus need to walk a long way around in order to get to the place i need to be.

If you add an A.I. which will trigger a jump-event when you get close to an edge, it might generate a lot of frustration for people who want to stand close to an edge and not automatically jump off. But, if you implement it in a way that you need to "push" yourself off the edge in order to jump (like walking through a npc or a pc), you would still be able to stand on the edge without automatically jumping off.

But... I'll wait and see what SE's view is on that subject.

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Originally Posted by Aldora

When it comes to jumping, i don't really need a dedicated button with which i can make my character jump. But, i do find it annoying that i can't jump off a small ledge and thus need to walk a long way around in order to get to the place i need to be.

If you add an A.I. which will trigger a jump-event when you get close to an edge, it might generate a lot of frustration for people who want to stand close to an edge and not automatically jump off. But, if you implement it in a way that you need to "push" yourself off the edge in order to jump (like walking through a npc or a pc), you would still be able to stand on the edge without automatically jumping off.

But... I'll wait and see what SE's view is on that subject.

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It depends since there's a difference between "Jumping" and "Falling", i.e what you describe would be falling which you literally have to walk off the cliff in order to do -- Otherwise there's no reason to be next to a cliff unless you're avoiding knockback damage. There's also the simple "While in battle/active mode" variable that would prevent such an event from happening if you're referring to how Mages or Archer's set themselves up on a cliff face.

I can't believe people are still going on about spam jumping. Get over it already. Oh wait, you can't get over it because you can't jump.

Ever heard of a cool-down feature? JEE ZUSS CHRIST ALMIGHTY.

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Originally Posted by gifthorse

I can't believe people are still going on about spam jumping. Get over it already. Oh wait, you can't get over it because you can't jump.

Ever heard of a cool-down feature? JEE ZUSS CHRIST ALMIGHTY.

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Yep.

Delivers a short jumping attack on a targeted enemy.
Obtained: Dragoon Level 10
Recast Time: 1:30
Duration: Instant

I'm just going to copypasta something I had in another thread...

"Won't fit into a world" is kind of a weak argument as far as jumping goes. lol
Considering people can jump and climb over obstacles irl... it actually seems less immersive to me when I'm stuck near a 2ft ledge in XI or XIV and I can't jump over it. I CAN SLAY MIGHTY BEASTS, CAST MAGIC AND BRING PEOPLE BACK FROM THE DEAD but oh this tiny ledge is too much for me. =(

...You see what I'm saying? lol

I'm all for a jump feature, but I don't think it should be a priority. Make the game an actual game first.

I've been a huge FF fan over the years, and the one thing that I always thought was missing was a jump feature. And plainly put, I would love a jump feature. I think those who are against having one are speaking from a predisposed perspective and truely haven't thought through how nice having a jump feature would be.

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Originally Posted by Jennestia

Yep.

Delivers a short jumping attack on a targeted enemy.
Obtained: Dragoon Level 10
Recast Time: 1:30
Duration: Instant

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Quit livin in the past, man.

I vote for FFXIII jumping.

The best option for jumping I've been hearing is the auto-jump, or action-based jump (going near a cliff and automatically jumping, or pressing an action button to execute it)

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Originally Posted by Shelia

The best option for jumping I've been hearing is the auto-jump, or action-based jump (going near a cliff and automatically jumping, or pressing an action button to execute it)

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Care to go more in depth with your reasoning? Still not sure why people would get annoyed over a freeform jump feature, other then the fact that WoW has it.

with zelda/mh style jumping we could change recovery time based on falling distance.

Fairly high drop and you land on your hands and knees and have to push yourself up before starting again

just a small step and you stagger a bit but keep on running

medium drop and you bend over and slow down for a second then keep running.

Huge drop, WHAMMO you crumple and lay on your back/front for a few seconds before getting up. Unless you're a dragoon.

Ascending ledges would just be climbing or pull ups.

all of this could be triggered by holding E while running into a ledge so you dont hurtle yourself into a pit full of peistes