[dev1022] Auto-attack system questions and discussion

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Originally Posted by KaleRenier

In my opinion, coming from someone who has played WoW, Rift in beta, Warhammer online, and countless other Free MMO's past/present. They all have auto attacks in combat. Why not keep FFXIV original and let the combat w/o auto attacks stand as is. All auto attacks do, if any of you notice, is make animations from abilities glitch.

Also, it takes away from the strategic feel of combat that FFXIV currently has going for it. It's about time a game breaks the mold. It also holds more true to the FF gameplay feel. FF console titles didn't have auto attacks, the combat was strategic, you picked to "basic attack" or use of a "skill" every time a characters turn came around. and putting that feel into an MMO was done as well it could be in this case i would like to think.

Another point to make here is Bioware is following suite on this one, and NO auto attacks in SWTOR either. "the times, they are a changin' " auto attack fans need to get used to it.

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But I don't like change! It frightens and confuses me!!! *





* Author's note: Screw auto-attack.

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Originally Posted by Malakhim

But I don't like change! It frightens and confuses me!!! *

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To me, this basically summarizes what I feel the pro-auto-attack crowd feels, though they'll never admit it.

common SE, please make the current battle system more awesome, better to handle and make the control more fluent (and more mage dmg and "better" animations, of course).

adding auto attack would be a step in the wrong direction (or just a step back lol >.> )

I'm for auto attack. It's one thing to be unique. It's another thing to be stubburn and add unnecessary repetitiveness to battles. 1 1 1 1 5 1 1 1 2 1 1 1 1 4. Really? Also. It's not about being able to watch TV and play at the same time. I don't really do that. But I would like to be able to chat during a battle. And you can't really do that outside of vent.(You shouldn't need a seperate program to be able to communicate in battle.) And also, you can't autotranslate or speak easily with a non english player with vent. So typing is a must.(I'm not bashing a possible in game voice chat feature, as I use vent with linkshell groups, but that's a whole different, mostly unrelated issue.)

Ok, I find this thread a very interesting read.
So..

Here I go.. I think the game should have a toggle option for AA.
If you have AA on, you remove any chance of scoring Criticals on Mobs.
With AA off.. Can can get Critials. This will reward players who chose the more manual route.

I Personally have problems with my hands, and I would think about playing this game more if I didnt have to spam a key every 2 to 3 seconds. ATM I can only play in small periods due to this.

So is someone wants to go out and solo farm, swtich AA on, you can chat on the LS while fighting.
Want to party and be all serious, switch AA off and kick some butt.

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Originally Posted by InfiniteSilence

I'm for auto attack. It's one thing to be unique. It's another thing to be stubburn and add unnecessary repetitiveness to battles. 1 1 1 1 5 1 1 1 2 1 1 1 1 4. Really? Also. It's not about being able to watch TV and play at the same time. I don't really do that. But I would like to be able to chat during a battle. And you can't really do that outside of vent.(You shouldn't need a seperate program to be able to communicate in battle.) And also, you can't autotranslate or speak easily with a non english player with vent. So typing is a must.(I'm not bashing a possible in game voice chat feature, as I use vent with linkshell groups, but that's a whole different, mostly unrelated issue.)

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I really wish people would quit posting the above, as it's simply not a valid argument in any way. It's been posted at least a dozen times in this thread that if you're spamming a single attack that often, you need to reevaluate how you're approaching combat.

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Originally Posted by Malakhim

But I don't like change! It frightens and confuses me!!! *


* Author's note: Screw auto-attack.

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Originally Posted by Dreamer

To me, this basically summarizes what I feel the pro-auto-attack crowd feels, though they'll never admit it.

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Yup, agreed completely. I've stated it before... one of the reasons the pro-AA crowd are that way is because they don't know anything else and are afraid of change.

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Originally Posted by InfiniteSilence

I'm for auto attack. It's one thing to be unique. It's another thing to be stubburn and add unnecessary repetitiveness to battles. 1 1 1 1 5 1 1 1 2 1 1 1 1 4. Really? Also. It's not about being able to watch TV and play at the same time. I don't really do that. But I would like to be able to chat during a battle. And you can't really do that outside of vent.(You shouldn't need a seperate program to be able to communicate in battle.) And also, you can't autotranslate or speak easily with a non english player with vent. So typing is a must.(I'm not bashing a possible in game voice chat feature, as I use vent with linkshell groups, but that's a whole different, mostly unrelated issue.)

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This is a horrible, horrible argument. Let's take two of the newer and more competitive MMOs out there... Aion and Rift. In Aion, guess how you play? I'll give you an example of a rotation:

234567234567

Guess what? You are spamming those buttons just as much as you might be spamming buttons in FFXIV. Rift is the same way, only you need less buttons. Generally it's just 112112112 (combo builder, combo builder, finisher), with a few utility skills mixed in. Auto attack, in both these games IS USELESS. It serves absolutely no purpose. You are spamming buttons just as much as you are spamming buttons in FFXIV.

In my ever so honest opinion I feel that we need some Akihiko_Matsui to tell us about the combat changes! Death penalty and monster aggro icons can wait!

Matsui, my man. Come greet us.

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Originally Posted by Dreamer

I really wish people would quit posting the above, as it's simply not a valid argument in any way. It's been posted at least a dozen times in this thread that if you're spamming a single attack that often, you need to reevaluate how you're approaching combat.

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Not really spamming a single attack the whole fight. Just need to spam my basic attack to get tp to use my WS's and such. I do buffs when I need them. But as for combat, the amount of whiffs it takes to get tp sometimes is ridiculous. And yes, my dex is up there.

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Originally Posted by Kaedan

This is a horrible, horrible argument. Let's take two of the newer and more competitive MMOs out there... Aion and Rift. In Aion, guess how you play? I'll give you an example of a rotation:

234567234567

Guess what? You are spamming those buttons just as much as you might be spamming buttons in FFXIV. Rift is the same way, only you need less buttons. Generally it's just 112112112 (combo builder, combo builder, finisher), with a few utility skills mixed in. Auto attack, in both these games IS USELESS. It serves absolutely no purpose. You are spamming buttons just as much as you are spamming buttons in FFXIV.

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I understand that. But this is NOT a WOW-esque game. You don't understand what a rotation is in those games do you? You don't crit munch, you don't have ignite procs, you don't have combustion in FFXIV. Basically, the skills in this game don't compliment eachother very much as with other games. This is not a rotation style game, where if you don't press a button for 2 seconds, your DPS will drop and 12 year olds will QQ and kick you, because you wanted to take a sip of your drink.

PS: I'm not supporting WoW. I played the game for a short time and still think it's pretty dumb. Played FFXI for years and loved it.

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Originally Posted by InfiniteSilence

I understand that. But this is NOT a WOW-esque game. You don't understand what a rotation is in those games do you? You don't crit munch, you don't have ignite procs, you don't have combustion in FFXIV. Basically, the skills in this game don't compliment eachother very much as with other games. This is not a rotation style game, where if you don't press a button for 2 seconds, your DPS will drop and 12 year olds will QQ and kick you, because you wanted to take a sip of your drink.

PS: I'm not supporting WoW. I played the game for a short time and still think it's pretty dumb. Played FFXI for years and loved it.

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Actually, it is a rotation style game. Any MMO with an ability bar and cooldowns is a rotation style game.

Also, just because WoW's community tends to suck, doesn't make the point less valid.

The point was, in every other MMO, you are spamming buttons. It doesn't matter if there is an AA or not. This is no different.

The only exception is FFXI... which can be very boring. Wait doing nothing until your TP is 100%, then hit a macro. Wait.... hit a macro. Wait.... hit a macro. Granted, there are jobs that are constantly busy, and THOSE are the jobs I liked. Rdm, Cor, Thf, Brd.

Really what it comes down to is that AA is useless. It either makes for boring gameplay, or is insignificant (since abilities are better).