Your Dark Knight players are unhappy. あなたの暗闇騎士プレイヤーは不幸です

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Originally Posted by Danelo

The entire player base should really pay attention here. For the last 6+ years it’s been DRK, as well as other jobs to a lesser extent, but the mentality of “we know best, you pay and enjoy” will be coming to your main job soon. And God forbid you complain or voice your discontent in anything other than the most polite hushed tones to be followed up with flattery of Yoshi for saving the game over 10 years ago; Yoshi will call you out for being pissed after years of ignored polite comments.

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I don't know man, Dark Arts was removed because of community feedback during Stormsblood, suddenly wanting it back is a taste of irony.

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Originally Posted by Undeadfire

I don't know man, Dark Arts was removed because of community feedback during Stormsblood, suddenly wanting it back is a taste of irony.

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I think it would be more accurate to say OG DRKs wanted the frequency of dark arts pared back the HW levels BUT, if they couldn’t have that, then they would rather it removed entirely…. I wasn’t the only one saying that at the time.

But that’s one thing.

It's like that dude said before, Dark Arts was getting used less, and less, pushing to the end of HW, even I know it was becoming less used over time, wasn't any need for it.

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Originally Posted by Undeadfire

It's like that dude said before, Dark Arts was getting used less, and less, pushing to the end of HW, even I know it was becoming less used over time, wasn't any need for it.

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I don’t mind they ditched dark arts, spammy or not, but I think the point remains about it being not being listened to responded to

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Originally Posted by Undeadfire

It's like that dude said before, Dark Arts was getting used less, and less, pushing to the end of HW, even I know it was becoming less used over time, wasn't any need for it.

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Except that doesn't even make sense. It couldn't have been used less and less as it was a part of the dps contribution to your rotation. It may not have been used to buff dark mind very much toward the end of HW, but saying the ability itself was used less and less is a complete fabrication.

The community did not like what they did to dark arts for SB, that doesn't equate to just wanting it outright removed.

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Originally Posted by Rhais

Except that doesn't even make sense. It couldn't have been used less and less as it was a part of the dps contribution to your rotation. It may not have been used to buff dark mind very much toward the end of HW, but saying the ability itself was used less and less is a complete fabrication.

The community did not like what they did to dark arts for SB, that doesn't equate to just wanting it outright removed.

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It's because the use of Dark Arts was overstated in the fact that it literally turned into "ADD 150 Potency to THIS and THIS and THIS" on 5 or 6 different buttons(which was VERY annoying. Dark Arts Plunge? Why?). What made DRK feel great to use Dark Arts in HW was actually planned usage. Outside of your combos, you actually had some parity of choice in what you used it on. Dark Passenger for Blind, Dark Arts Dark Dance? Sure. What the Battle Development Team needs to focus on is what made DRK actually fun to play before - not dumbing it down to the point where everything is desynced at end-game.

The problem with Dark Arts over time was that if Dark Knight was offtank, then a lot of the uses for Dark Arts fell off in importance, because a lot of the abilities required the Drk to be the Main Tank to be effective. This also ties into a lot of the abilities that were removed over the various expansions. Blood Price, Dark Dance, Reprisal, Dark Passenger. Most of these benefited the Dark Knight when they were the main tank. They didn't really make sense for Drk to use them if they were OT.

I mean, Dark Arts + Dark Dance and Dark Arts + Dark Passenger was fairly effective as a combination on a huge pull when tanking. Dark Knight had great synergy for many of those skills. But those skills required the Drk to be actively tanking.


Dark Arts should be more central to the class I feel. The issue is how to balance it. We would effectively have 3 resources to maintain if they added stacks of Dark Arts back.

I honestly feel we should be rewarded for tanking, and unleashing Dark Arts in reprisal of attacks against us, or our friends, should be the reward for that. TBN right now is the ONLY form of Dark Knight's original feel of " Punch you back in the face " for every hit you slam me with that remains.

Allowing Dark Knights to gain Dark Arts from other abilities that we slap on ourselves, or others, would help restore that feeling of Reprisal for the pain dished out against us, or those whom we are protecting.

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Originally Posted by Dracosavarian

The problem with Dark Arts over time was that if Dark Knight was offtank, then a lot of the uses for Dark Arts fell off in importance, because a lot of the abilities required the Drk to be the Main Tank to be effective.

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I... have no issue with this. I see little point to the later obsession that tank's must be able to apply their mitigation even without being the one's attacked over just... reducing Voke's cooldown and increasing the number of tankbusters (especially, multi-hit TBs) and the overall rate of incoming damage as to more frequently oblige tanks tagging in/out.

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Originally Posted by Shurrikhan

I... have no issue with this. I see little point to the later obsession that tank's must be able to apply their mitigation even without being the one's attacked over just... reducing Voke's cooldown and increasing the number of tankbusters (especially, multi-hit TBs) and the overall rate of incoming damage as to more frequently oblige tanks tagging in/out.

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Oh, I was just explaining the reasons why those abilities, and Dark Arts by extension, was largely removed. Hence the large portion of Dark Knight's very identity being severed from the job as a result.

I am just citing the reason why those abilities were likely removed. Because they ended up being button bloat, when in a good majority of the content they didn't serve much use if the Drk wasn't Main tank. A lot of the kit that Drk had revolved around those abilities and Dark Arts boosting them. But since they are gone, Dark Arts only extends to when TBN is burst now.

I'd like to see Dark Arts brought back, but bring back that sense of retaliation by allowing us to slap abilities on others, even as Off Tank. And be rewarded for those uses with a charge of Dark Arts that can boost various things.

I think that would help bring back Drk's identity as the Tank that Retaliated for getting punched in the face. So to speak.

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Originally Posted by Dracosavarian

Oh, I was just explaining the reasons why those abilities, and Dark Arts by extension, was largely removed.

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Oh, that was clear. Sorry for hyjacking your post / taking it in a new direction.

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I'd like to see Dark Arts brought back, but bring back that sense of retaliation by allowing us to slap abilities on others, even as Off Tank.

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I'd like to see DA brought back if done well* (not causing the base skills to feel merely watered down to point of uselessness nor their augmented forms not worth their potency cost), but I don't think it much needs to be OT-applicable. You've a fair bit of banking, and I'd like for tanks to typically swap in and out rather than their being so long-defined an "MT" and "OT".

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I think that would help bring back Drk's identity as the Tank that Retaliated for getting punched in the face. So to speak.

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I think it'd help all of the tanks, to be honest, to have a bit more of their potency bound up in reactives/retaliation (and, by extension, more towards presently tanking).

PLD could retain identity in that external mitigation capacity though a less crippled / more integral, but apart from that OT options really should be a last resort or consequent to systemic changes (like virtually all attacks actually being to some degree soaks --T10 style if linear-- or hits-first-target skillshots). Even then I'd argue that something like that for Warrior should be a split-according-to-proximity sort of strike-leader effect rather than a single-target external mitigation and shared-healing tool (Nascent).

Not terribly relevant to the trajectory of the larger thread, but just my two cents on preferable tank gameplay, aesthetic, and thereby identity/feel.