I thought people might be exaggerating about SMN

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Originally Posted by Madoka

Here's the thing about Aveyond, they post in every single summoner thread dismissing any and all reasoning fans of the old SMN post and attempt to shit on them at the same time. If you don't open the dps section out, try it sometime. you'll see some 30 page SMN thread and 10 pages worth of posts are him replying to every single person saying they are wrong for liking old SMN or some hyperbole about how the class was never played before, or some other bs. They also do not have Arcanist even unlocked on the character they openly show on their profile despite almost exclusively posting in SMN threads. They are an extremely dedicated troll and a coward.

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If that's the case, typically I find it's best to ignore the person till they go away.

That being said, I actually enjoy both versions of summoner, so I've not spent much time in the summoner threads in the DPS forum. Have had much more to discuss with my fellow monks about the overhaul we also got this expansion, which has also been pretty divisive. Though thanks for the clarification.

To be fair this entire thread is just crying over spilled milk.

It's mostly just a place for people to vent.

Again, I sympathize to those that hate the change.

I think the changes are fine personally, but it doesn't take an entelechy to put yourself in their shoes and see how this situation really sucks.

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Originally Posted by Maxilor

To be fair this entire thread is just crying over spilled milk.

It's mostly just a place for people to vent.

Again, I sympathize to those that hate the change.

I think the changes are fine personally, but it doesn't take an entelechy to put yourself in their shoes and see how this situation really sucks.

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I understand where those people are coming from. My brain just can't seem to process how they actually found the previous incarnations of SMN in FF XIV fun since it was never really a Summoner at all.

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Originally Posted by Maxilor

To be fair this entire thread is just crying over spilled milk.

It's mostly just a place for people to vent.

Again, I sympathize to those that hate the change.

I think the changes are fine personally, but it doesn't take an entelechy to put yourself in their shoes and see how this situation really sucks.

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Speaking personally, I'm one of the few who really enjoyed StB MCH's mechanics and felt ShB was a direct downgrade despite the general community dancing with joy at the rework, so I can directly empathize with how SMN feel right now.

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Originally Posted by Vahlnir

I understand where those people are coming from. My brain just can't seem to process how they actually found the previous incarnations of SMN in FF XIV fun since it was never really a Summoner at all.

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I don't think that mattered to people that enjoyed it. They enjoyed it because they found the game play of it fun / engaging. It all is just a matter of opinion in the end.

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Originally Posted by Vahlnir

I understand where those people are coming from. My brain just can't seem to process how they actually found the previous incarnations of SMN in FF XIV fun since it was never really a Summoner at all.

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Because it had engaging gameplay, and bahamut/FBT felt like nice, giant burst phases we earned. Instead of doing the same thing every 15 seconds.

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Originally Posted by Madoka

Because it had engaging gameplay, and bahamut/FBT felt like nice, giant burst phases we earned. Instead of doing the same thing every 15 seconds.

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Fully agree with you.

Was it difficult to play and master ? Yes, it was, but the reward was worth it.
Was it a Summoner ? Kinda, but just because other iterations of Summoners were different, it LITERALLY does NOT mean that it had to be turned into what it is now. (FF14 Sage has extremely little in common with the Sages in other Titles.
We went from a class, that was hard to master but really impactful, with really satisfying burst windows to a Class that in terms of simplicity outdoes MCH.

And the : ITS POPULAR NOW argument is not really valid.
A : How many summoners are just people who were leveling SHC ?
B : Its a pretty much NEW class, all new classes will be extremely popular at release and some time after.
C : Flashy spells make people want to play that class for a time until the novelty wears off.

We can talk about SMN popularity after at least half a year to a year.

Most, if not all former SMN mains weep in what their piano class became (me included), we played the class not just because it was a SMN we played the class since we enjoyed the more complex nature of the class, if we would want to play a "dumbed down" class (I use those words loosely) we would play RDM and arguably BLM (I play BLM a lot, the class is easy, the only "hard" part about the class is that it rewards fight knowledge, so to reach the best BLM has to offer, one has to know the fight well and know where to position).

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Originally Posted by Vahlnir

I understand where those people are coming from. My brain just can't seem to process how they actually found the previous incarnations of SMN in FF XIV fun since it was never really a Summoner at all.

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Because there is more to a job then aesthetics. Gameplay is more important

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Originally Posted by Vahlnir

I understand where those people are coming from. My brain just can't seem to process how they actually found the previous incarnations of SMN in FF XIV fun since it was never really a Summoner at all.

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Because there were things to think about, keep track of, line up, manage, timings to consider, abilities played/interacted with each other (ruin stacks, resetting of tri disaster), Interesting little tactical things you could do in situations and most of all there was room for personal growth. You still summoned too, idk why people think you didn't? Like you still had Bahamut and Pheonix in the last xpac, they just turned Bahamut into a Pheonix this xpac and made it so you spam one button instead of two during them (ST or AOE) and gave them a single astral flow click.

Titan, Garuda and Ifrit don't have any real things to consider other than movement with Ifrit, they are all roughly 4gcd with a bit of potency difference none of which is soo important that you need to really think about what order beyond movement, since you generally get to all 3 anyway unless a specific fight messes with it.

Visuals =/= fun. The visuals should enhance the experience not be the experience. I think they are headed in the right direction thematically... game play, it needs more, this is the only job in the game that makes me blatantly aware I'm clicking hardware buttons to play because there is so few things to think about or consider. I guess the upside of that is I'm 100% focused on the fights because lord knows there's nothing to pay attention to in the kit besides searing light.

It was a unique experience that no other jobs in XIV delivers on, now it's gone. No other job comes close to it's feel, I've played all of them (not all to 90 mind you) I'm all for the new visuals, and changes, but it needs more. The old one scratched a certain itch for me that is just gone though with no other job filling that void.

These other people talking about mobility , I feel like they never played summoner in the past, as it's always been mobile, to my memory. There was never a point in time where it wasn't able to move that I recall. I'm so confused by those comments.

I mean it's w/e I'm still playing it, I'll live. But ya, yikes in my opinion. Frankly the job is making me lazy as hell in fights when I try to play other jobs. This is all my opinion obviously and I'm not bashing anyone that likes it. It is what it is.

I find the class to be fun. It just needs either better raid utility, or it needs to do a lot more damage. RDM does better damage and has way better utility by a mile. There's hardly any reason to take a smn currently.