And thats fair -- but the problem is that they already set themselves up with a standard on it. This can all be solved with that simple statement of that by someone in that team, and this entire point is now moot and understandable. The problem is: they havent, and have virutally be silent on the fact.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaurhz
See its funny, since none of these didnt even come out until patches 5.3/5.4/5.5 -- which is even funnier considering that GNB and DNC still didnt get weapons for them; but did get weapons for Shinryu in 5.2.Quote:
When I mentioned standard it was in relation to them keeping a routine with regards to how and when they're released, something that isn't necessarily a trend as of yet. It's inconsistent. Check the pattern for yourself it's barely there when you make a basis for comparison with every other piece of content. They've released them very randomly, to be frank. We got Suzaku/Seiryu before Zurvan and Byakko. Comparatively Sophia and Sephirot were released way back in SB. The level of planning on what is released and when is essentially playing raffle. - That was my point with standards.
Again, consistency is key. You cant earnestly release one thing during the life of an expansion then just not do it for the others -- come on. Thats inexcusable, they should be receiving weapons designed for Primals during at least their own expansion.
The problem is lack of communication:Quote:
Finally, a point that I don't necessarily disagree with. Given the above I would just argue that if they have time to do it, or something - Then they shall. Otherwise sayonara. In other words developing primal weapons for old encounters where original models don't exist is bottom of the barrel with this list of priorities.
Heavensward: All new jobs get Primal weapons previously and withing their own expansion's timeframe
Stormblood: All new jobs get Primal weapons previously and within their own expansion's timeframe
Shadowbringers: All new jobs dont get previous Primal weapons and get only get one in 5.2 (disregarding Hades, since Hades is Shadowbringers content).
Thats a heavy and noticeable dip in quality without explanation. Sure, making 30+ different weapon models is a bit of a reach....but 8? Especially since they were being released during your own expansion meaning development was during the same time? Come on, you cannot defend that.
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12-23-2021, 10:48 PMY2K21
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12-24-2021, 06:30 AMKizuyaKatogamiMy thoughts exactly. Well said.Quote:
Originally Posted by Y2K21
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12-24-2021, 10:08 AMIscahThe gear has an ancient Greek sort of vibe to me, and I like the designs. I don't see the "space hobo" thing at all.Quote:
Originally Posted by Darthgummibear
Canonically the gear doesn't actually drop from the raids but is made in Eorzea and you're bartering for it with historical relics you find in the raid. -
12-24-2021, 12:06 PMKaurhzI'm fairly sure they have made a statement regarding primal glamour weapons in the past, but this is not something I have the time to check back with every interview (Thus take it as heresay) - But my memory serves me in that it was stated a developer was doing it in their spare time. - Regardless though, I don't think they generally expect or feel the need to actually release a statement on primal weapons, given there are more interesting things to query about- But by all means pose the question when they next elect to do a Q/A.Quote:
Originally Posted by Y2K21
Indeed, but as I have stated the order in which these are released are seemingly very random. Again, referring to the order with which they were released. - Almost as if there has been no other plan barring someone having spare time.
Sure - I don't necessarily disagree with the point in consistency. The whole reason we're having this discussion is because consistency is non-existence, and as I have mentioned on this thread once, if they cannot or couldn't reliably do this from the get-go then primal crafted weapons should never have existed in the first place. Seemingly, initially they wanted to make additional use out of the primal items aside from being a material for furniture or a barding.
They cannot communicate every little change or struggle and if I am to be quite frank they shouldn't need to communicate this. If enough people care about this then the question would repeatedly be submitted for a Q/A and thus would likely get answered. If it hasn't then people have more pressing matters they want to query.
Yes and your list perfectly highlights the issue behind it. if they wanted to continually develop primal weapons for past expansions then the model count would increase significantly. Number of classes is 2, number of trials per expansion with crafted weapons is around 5 (SB). Let's say they wanted to develop GNB/DNC weapons for SB this would require developing 10 weapon models for jobs that simply didn't exist, and as I've said with each subsequent expansion this becomes more difficult.
Want GNB/DNC to have HW weapons? Well that's an additional 7. That now becomes 14 weapons. For DNC/GNB across HW/SB that becomes 24. Now let's say you want to introduce ARR weapons into the mix? that's an additional 10 weapons models. Care to do the maths for EW weapons? - Now we can come into the conundrum of "Why not just make weapon models for the respective trials to be released through that expansion?" (e.g. give RPR/SGE weapons from the Sorrows of Werlyt + WoL trial) - Sure that's more tenable. But then people in this thread will only resort to the tactic of complaining that they aren't doing it for all the trials of the previous expansion, or crying that it's still a sloppy approach - Which sure I don't necessarily disagree but all that is being accomplished is people shifting the post of their complaint from all trials to sloppy.
I don't defend their absence, contrary to how my post is coming across. My defence/argument wrests on the simple fact people are just crying about it and chalking it up to the developers being money hungry (maybe they are) piggies, and lazy developers, despite having not the feintest clue of what they do, or do not do day to day. We can argue that 'dip' in quality has just been placed elsewhere in the expansion. - Once again we go back to the whole point of the scope of argument being incredibly narrow. You can argue dip in this scope. I can argue increase in another scope. For example, I could argue no other expansion has seen 2 sets of flashy relic tools (relic tools on top of the resplendent/blessed tools) - So yes I could reasonably make the defence, especially when the original argument is done on the basis of trying to highlight a decrease in content, or a half-baked attempt at calling the developers lazy.
tl;dr on my last point: I don't defend the absence of the weapons. I defend the difficulty of the undertaking to maintain this standard with each subsequent expansion, especially seeing as from HW right up until now we've seen a wider scope of content delivery in the game. In this sense I also argue against the point that we're seeing less and less content (that is when you manage to broaden your scope) -
12-24-2021, 12:44 PMjrollins89
We go to the moon and even the edge of the universe itself. I was really expecting some unique, alien-looking gear at some point. My disappointment comes more from all of the missed opportunities rather than the mere fact of recycled assets. There were some pretty cool zones in the expansion, it's a shame that they didn't contain the flavored loot to go along with it.
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12-24-2021, 01:05 PMKizuyaKatogami
I’m just hoping we get 2 pvp sets again and an end of expansion glam as both of those were absent last expansion
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12-24-2021, 10:57 PMJirahThey did a great job evading this by having jobs start really late but two counter arguments.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaurhz
1) we aren’t asking for every single model, the fact that the 4 new jobs are poorly supported is laughable since SB had all their primal weapons and raids and even final coil weapons while they can’t even asked to have ultimates.
2) Due to recycled assets, we already have some weapons like Shire weapons (82 crafted) Chromite (72/86 crafted) Ala Mihgo (76) Baldur drops from Continum and Nevereap (68 crafted/ 77 dungeon drops) and Neo Ishagrd (Mt gulg drop) and Exarchic (74 crafted) so at the VERY least just add those on?
3) before starting EW the new jobs have the fewest options of any new job, wouldn’t kill them to add the trials at base or at 80 which will only make it
Worse over time , seeing how DNC and GNB were also putridly supported -
12-25-2021, 12:08 AMKaurhzYes and the later the jobs start the more difficult they make this undertaking.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jirah
Regarding counter argument 1, whilst I do agree that is not what is being asked, but as is the case evident in this thread, people will only continue to make comparisons between now and Heavensward and with that the goalpost for criticism will likely move. Do I think this encompasses everyone? Nope but it will still be a complaint all the same - Not only that given there's a couple of posts in this thread selectively complaining about reused assets, I would stand to argue they would also complain that they didn't release primal crafted for the one they wanted. As I have stated several times in this thread adding models for older content, be it ultimate weapons, or primal crafted, that will always remain a low priority on their schedule because they don't deem it a necessity. I know a similar question was asked back in ShB for DNC/GNB, and then apparently a similar one was asked for Endwalker in which this was said - https://clips.twitch.tv/BenevolentJa...MLfxAojKhu21ZL
To summarise that even if weapons for Ultimate aren't added immediately that does not mean they won't necessarily preclude them from being scheduled later in the development timeline. The only basis for adding final coil weapons for SAM/RDM is practically because those models would be required to create the Ultimate weapons for UCoB anyway. Ironically these were also released in 4.1 ahead of the release of Ultimate in 4.11, they hardly added support for them for any other reason than for Ultimate (which was required).
Again as I've said I don't disagree with the complaint regarding the absence of them, I hardly find it good in any capacity - But the point I've been trying to make that has apparently fallen on deaf ears is that it just becomes more of an undertaking with each passing expansion and that supporting models for older encounters is just a very, very low priority - As it should be. Generally speaking we've had more content in ShB than we've had in SB, and higher quality (subjectively speaking), and I'd rather neither of these come at the expense because people are moaning about reused assets and some missing primal weapons. -
12-25-2021, 12:13 AMElciaDeiLinusWe'll get three gear sets out of pandamonium though- this one is clearly based off the ancients, which does make sense considering where it is. I wouldn't be too surprised if one of the other two sets for the raid end up being themed that dark and gothic.Quote:
Originally Posted by Darthgummibear
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12-25-2021, 12:48 AMKizuyaKatogamiGod i hope so. We already did the whole white/angelic thing with Eden. This is supposed to be about Pandaemonium and demons and hell and we get more white gear? Like i get it’s greek themed and everything but you can have some gothic themed stuff while still being greek inspired.Quote:
Originally Posted by ElciaDeiLinus