Ranged DPS role is about to be excluded from all content

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Originally Posted by Neela

one should be carful with statements like this... blm is fine now if u compare him with the other underrated cls atm... but voices will raise if the dmg gap will shrink - cause "blm has to stand out with his dmg due to lack of utility" phrase. now what if mnk and blm just would be ahead of 200-300 dps again? is blm broke again in that scenario? I bet half of the comm would say so... - so yeah blm is fine as long others lack - but where the border between overturned and undertuned raw dps cls like sam/blm? is it like in the early days? a few hundred? or like atm a few thousands?... Blm will never be "perfect" if all other cls would be balanced right.

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to be fair, compared to "the early days" we now have a way better tool to actually compare the dps classes actually bring to the raid, fflogs listing raid dps (which isn't perfect and has its own set of problems) is vastly superior to simply listing the damage a class did in an actual fight like it did before shadowbringers and the "utility" (dmg buffs are included in the raid dps metric so they can be ignored) in actuality only the phys ranged dps had is basically gone completly.

mind you i'm not saying there is zero utility, or that it should be ignored completly because its so little left, but addle is basically the shorter cooldown version of troubadour/samba/tactician considering it works on most stuff and if it does works the same at half the cooldown, if anything any class could use some "personal utility" not much, just like a single skill that class has that is highly situational and may come in handy once every blue moon but probably won't. And yes, that runs counter to the "selfish dps" type, but considering everything they took away from bard/mch its pretty safe to say there are no utility jobs anymore

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Originally Posted by Neela

one should be carful with statements like this... blm is fine now if u compare him with the other underrated cls atm... but voices will raise if the dmg gap will shrink - cause "blm has to stand out with his dmg due to lack of utility" phrase. now what if mnk and blm just would be ahead of 200-300 dps again? is blm broke again in that scenario? I bet half of the comm would say so... - so yeah blm is fine as long others lack - but where the border between overturned and undertuned raw dps cls like sam/blm? is it like in the early days? a few hundred? or like atm a few thousands?... Blm will never be "perfect" if all other cls would be balanced right.

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This comment really confuses me and makes me wonder how many people missed the fact that we're now reasoning in rDPS terms.

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Originally Posted by Lastelli

This comment really confuses me and makes me wonder how many people missed the fact that we're now reasoning in rDPS terms.

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rDPS is useless if a single 50% blm pulls more than a 99% range/caster rival - so what's your point with rDPS?

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Originally Posted by Neela

rDPS is useless if a single 50% blm pulls more than a 99% range/caster rival - so what's your point with rDPS?

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The point is, as long as jobs competing for the same spot in a full party have comparable/equivalent rDPS, everything will be fine and job selection will be based entirely on players' preference. Your previous comment seemed to suggest that the only way for BLM to be good was to have any other job in the game be bad, which is...disputable, to say the least.

na i haven't said blm is bad - he just won't be high praised "perfect" if he wouldnt pull 2k dps more than everybody else - not more not less.

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as long as jobs competing for the same spot in a full party have comparable/equivalent rDPS, everything will be fine

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...and... u think that's currently the case huh? your thesis is totally irrelevant.. if a Blm pulls more aDPS than any other cls even on rDPS, so again whats your point with rDPS?...

imo classes with higher skill ceiling should have higher dps ..

that was a multiple expansion issue with dark knight and at times with blm..., luckily blm has been fixed.., even with more mobility than ever, blm remains the most difficult class in e4s..

dont see how ranged (with so much utility) should ever be on par with blm and sam.. (like end of HW, where Brd and Mch shined too strongly, even if it required a Drg back than)..

especially since now the ranged are the easiest dos classes (mobility advantagesl) and have easy rotas to maintain

how much more / less dps is fine?.. 5%?..3%?.. 10%??.. it should just be almost always noticeable

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Originally Posted by Shiroe

especially since now the ranged are the easiest dos classes (mobility advantagesl) and have easy rotas to maintain

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Uhh... have you even played Bard/Machinist? And I mean in like, a non-dumpster fire way?

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Originally Posted by Shiroe

how much more / less dps is fine?.. 5%?..3%?.. 10%??.. it should just be almost always noticeable

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sure but not that noticeable that every other dd gets irrelevant : /

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Originally Posted by Dogempire

Uhh... have you even played Bard/Machinist? And I mean in like, a non-dumpster fire way?

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nope... there she goes : /
https://s17.directupload.net/images/190919/4zp6vqfl.png

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Originally Posted by Shiroe

dont see how ranged (with so much utility) should ever be on par with blm and sam..

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It's amazing because I don't need to say anything, just to quote you to show that you don't know how a ranged work or at the bare minimum their abilities.

Let's be clear:

-Rangeds Jobs are the friendliest to beginners.
-Rangeds Jobs might be the tighest to optimize due to the permanent uptime.

-Positionnal is around 500 dps bonus. Meaning you loose 500 dps if you hit the boss front side and don't use true north. Good luck doing that on E3S/E4S.
-Rangeds jobs will be the priority to bait mechanics due to "Mobility". More works on the ranged for the only reward to bolster one teammate DPS. (More responsability = less rDPS?)

-Ranged tax MUST exist otherwise content could be cheesed with 3 ranged and 1 caster or simply make the meta 2 rangeds.
-Ranged tax is not balanced at all. A ranged playing at the perfection should equal a melee playing well but unable to optimize its rotation. Right now a melee doing the bare minimum and dying will bring the same amount if not more of what a ranged can bring.

-There is no utility. This is not Stormblood, the ranged utility is now limited to Tactician/Samba/Troubadour for all jobs, Battle voice for Barde, Dance and buff for Dancer with a shit rDPS.

I dare you to say "with so much utility" when you talk about MCH when all that remains is Tactician but Unmend is better due to its flexibility and presence over the fight.